Defending the Trinity in the bible

[UsagiTsukino]

Here is the rejects of the trinity


Hello,


I was raised Catholic, but later on in adulthood I started attending other churches. I believed the trinity just because that was what I was taught. But as I started reading the Bible on my own, my belief in the trinity became strained. I basically ended up asking myself "Do I cling to a belief even though I now know there are many verses that show it cannot be true?" After years of internal debate, I finally decided I could not, in good conscience, continue holding to the doctrine of the trinity. Below are some of the reasons why:
=========
John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.


If Jesus says The Father is greater than He was, then how can the trinity doctrine say that there are 3 co-EQUAL gods in one?
============
John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.


Jesus says that the Father was His God? How can God have a God? How many Gods are there then, if Jesus was also God according to the trinity doctrine?
============
John 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.


If Jesus is God, then why couldn't He do things on His own?
============
John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.


Jesus says that the Father who lives within Him is the one given credit for His good works. If Jesus was God, why couldn't He do the good works Himself?
=============
Matthew 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God...


Jesus makes it plain here. He considers Himself separate from God.
==============
Luke 2:52 And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man.


Trinitarians say Jesus was "fully God and fully man"...how could God increase in wisdom and in favor with Himself?
=============
Mark 1:13 And he was there in the wilderness forty days, tempted of Satan; and was with the wild beasts; and the angels ministered unto him.
James 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:


Jesus was tempted by Satan, but we are told that God cannot be tempted.
===============
Mark 13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.


God is all-knowing, but Jesus did not know when He would be returning to earth.
===============
John 3:34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.


God gave Jesus His Spirit beyond measure. If Jesus was God, how can this verse make sense? And If Jesus was God, why would He need to be given the Holy Spirit?
===============
Numbers 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?


God tells us that He is not human.
==============
Deuteronomy 18:18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.


God, in speaking about the coming Messiah, tells Moses that He will raise up a prophet that will be like Moses. Now, if Jesus the Messiah was God, then He certainly was not at all like unto Moses…and if Jesus was God why would God the Father need to put His words in Jesus' mouth?
==============
Matthew 4:8-10 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; 9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me. 10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.


The statements in this passage make it very clear that Jesus is not God incarnate. If Jesus was God, then how could Satan offer to give Him something that was already His? Satan has no power or authority to give God the kingdoms of the world. Just think about it...God might be allowing satan to have control of the kingdoms of the world now, but how ludicrous would it be for satan to offer to give back to God anything, since God is ultimately in control of absolutely everything?


And consider Jesus' response: ""Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve."" If Jesus was God, does this answer make any sense? He is telling satan that He (Jesus) will only serve God. Why would He say such a thing if He himself was God?

Read more: http://www.city-data.com/forum/religion ... z4YoBK77u2

[B. W.]

Acts 4:10,11,12, "...let it be known to you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead, by Him this man stands here before you whole. 11 This is the 'STONE WHICH WAS REJECTED BY YOU BUILDERS, WHICH HAS BECOME THE CHIEF CORNERSTONE.' 12 Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved." " NKJV

Isaiah 45:21-23, "Tell and bring forth your case; Yes, let them take counsel together. Who has declared this from ancient time? Who has told it from that time? Have not I, the LORD? And there is no other God besides Me, A just God and a Savior; There is none besides Me. 22 "Look to Me, and be saved, All you ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other. 23 I have sworn by Myself; The word has gone out of My mouth in righteousness, And shall not return, That to Me every knee shall bow, Every tongue shall take an oath." NKJV

Isaiah 43:3, For I am the LORD your God, The Holy One of Israel, your Savior....

Isaiah 43:11, I, even I, am the LORD, And besides Me there is no savior. NKJV

Php 2:5,6,7,8,9,10,11

Only God can save and Jesus spoke of himself in the OT as the only savior who is whom?
-
-
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[RickD]

UsagiTsukino wrote:
If Jesus says The Father is greater than He was, then how can the trinity doctrine say that there are 3 co-EQUAL gods in one?

Where, pray tell, does the Trinity doctrine say that there are 3 co-Equal gods in one?

I'm convinced that any Christian who doesn't believe in the Trinity, is really arguing against some straw man doctrine, not against the actual doctrine of the Trinity.

[PaulSacramento]

UsagiTsukino wrote:
If Jesus says The Father is greater than He was, then how can the trinity doctrine say that there are 3 co-EQUAL gods in one?

Where, pray tell, does the Trinity doctrine say that there are 3 co-Equal gods in one?

I'm convinced that any Christian who doesn't believe in the Trinity, is really arguing against some straw man doctrine, not against the actual doctrine of the Trinity.

Rick has nailed the correct.
Much like atheists that invent a god they can disprove.

[DBowling]

John 1:1-14
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome[a] it.

6 There was a man sent from God whose name was John. 7 He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all might believe. 8 He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light.

9 The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

[jenna]

Here is the rejects of the trinity


Hello,


I was raised Catholic, but later on in adulthood I started attending other churches. I believed the trinity just because that was what I was taught. But as I started reading the Bible on my own, my belief in the trinity became strained. I basically ended up asking myself "Do I cling to a belief even though I now know there are many verses that show it cannot be true?" After years of internal debate, I finally decided I could not, in good conscience, continue holding to the doctrine of the trinity. Below are some of the reasons why:
=========
John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.


If Jesus says The Father is greater than He was, then how can the trinity doctrine say that there are 3 co-EQUAL gods in one?
============
John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.


Jesus says that the Father was His God? How can God have a God? How many Gods are there then, if Jesus was also God according to the trinity doctrine?
============
John 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.


If Jesus is God, then why couldn't He do things on His own?
============
John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.


Jesus says that the Father who lives within Him is the one given credit for His good works. If Jesus was God, why couldn't He do the good works Himself?
=============
Matthew 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God...


Jesus makes it plain here. He considers Himself separate from God.
==============
Luke 2:52 And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man.


Trinitarians say Jesus was "fully God and fully man"...how could God increase in wisdom and in favor with Himself?
=============
Mark 1:13 And he was there in the wilderness forty days, tempted of Satan; and was with the wild beasts; and the angels ministered unto him.
James 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:


Jesus was tempted by Satan, but we are told that God cannot be tempted.
===============
Mark 13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.


God is all-knowing, but Jesus did not know when He would be returning to earth.
===============
John 3:34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.


God gave Jesus His Spirit beyond measure. If Jesus was God, how can this verse make sense? And If Jesus was God, why would He need to be given the Holy Spirit?
===============
Numbers 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?


God tells us that He is not human.
==============
Deuteronomy 18:18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.


God, in speaking about the coming Messiah, tells Moses that He will raise up a prophet that will be like Moses. Now, if Jesus the Messiah was God, then He certainly was not at all like unto Moses…and if Jesus was God why would God the Father need to put His words in Jesus' mouth?
==============
Matthew 4:8-10 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; 9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me. 10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.


The statements in this passage make it very clear that Jesus is not God incarnate. If Jesus was God, then how could Satan offer to give Him something that was already His? Satan has no power or authority to give God the kingdoms of the world. Just think about it...God might be allowing satan to have control of the kingdoms of the world now, but how ludicrous would it be for satan to offer to give back to God anything, since God is ultimately in control of absolutely everything?


And consider Jesus' response: ""Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve."" If Jesus was God, does this answer make any sense? He is telling satan that He (Jesus) will only serve God. Why would He say such a thing if He himself was God?

Read more: http://www.city-data.com/forum/religion ... z4YoBK77u2

i am with you on these points. good luck getting a straight forward answer that actually makes sense. i have tried.

[DBowling]

good luck getting a straight forward answer that actually makes sense. i have tried.

Here are two 'go to' passages that help me understand what Scripture teaches about the fundamental nature of the relationship between God the Father and God the Son.

The most explicit passage regarding the deity of Jesus is found in John 1.
John 1:1-3 tells us three things.

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

We find out three important things about the Word (Jesus) in these first three verses of John's Gospel.
1. Jesus was with God
2. Jesus was God
3. Jesus is the Creator of all things.

Then in John 1:14

14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Here we discover that the Word (who was God, who was with God, and who created all things) became flesh in the person of the one and only Son, Jesus.

In Philippians 2, Paul gives us a little more insight into what God the Son willingly chose to put aside up when he 'became flesh'
Philippians 2:5-8

5 In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
7 rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
8 And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
by becoming obedient to death—
even death on a cross!

In this passage, Paul tells us that when Jesus 'became flesh' he "made himself nothing" or as the NASB puts it "he emptied himself".
When Jesus took on human flesh he willingly chose to "empty himself" and live life as fully human.
Which means, for example, that when in human form there were things that were known to God the Father that God the Son (Jesus) willingly chose not to know.

This is what Scripture teaches.
Now am I able to totally wrap my brain around how the Word could be with God while at the same time being God?
No... but any God that I could totally wrap my brain around and understand wouldn't really be God.

My job is not to expect to totally understand the extradimensional nature of God.
My job is to accept what Scripture teaches about Jesus and God... whether I totally understand it or not.

In Christ

[RickD]

Here is the rejects of the trinity


Hello,


I was raised Catholic, but later on in adulthood I started attending other churches. I believed the trinity just because that was what I was taught. But as I started reading the Bible on my own, my belief in the trinity became strained. I basically ended up asking myself "Do I cling to a belief even though I now know there are many verses that show it cannot be true?" After years of internal debate, I finally decided I could not, in good conscience, continue holding to the doctrine of the trinity. Below are some of the reasons why:
=========
John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.


If Jesus says The Father is greater than He was, then how can the trinity doctrine say that there are 3 co-EQUAL gods in one?
============
John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.


Jesus says that the Father was His God? How can God have a God? How many Gods are there then, if Jesus was also God according to the trinity doctrine?
============
John 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.


If Jesus is God, then why couldn't He do things on His own?
============
John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.


Jesus says that the Father who lives within Him is the one given credit for His good works. If Jesus was God, why couldn't He do the good works Himself?
=============
Matthew 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God...


Jesus makes it plain here. He considers Himself separate from God.
==============
Luke 2:52 And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man.


Trinitarians say Jesus was "fully God and fully man"...how could God increase in wisdom and in favor with Himself?
=============
Mark 1:13 And he was there in the wilderness forty days, tempted of Satan; and was with the wild beasts; and the angels ministered unto him.
James 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:


Jesus was tempted by Satan, but we are told that God cannot be tempted.
===============
Mark 13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.


God is all-knowing, but Jesus did not know when He would be returning to earth.
===============
John 3:34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.


God gave Jesus His Spirit beyond measure. If Jesus was God, how can this verse make sense? And If Jesus was God, why would He need to be given the Holy Spirit?
===============
Numbers 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?


God tells us that He is not human.
==============
Deuteronomy 18:18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.


God, in speaking about the coming Messiah, tells Moses that He will raise up a prophet that will be like Moses. Now, if Jesus the Messiah was God, then He certainly was not at all like unto Moses…and if Jesus was God why would God the Father need to put His words in Jesus' mouth?
==============
Matthew 4:8-10 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; 9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me. 10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.


The statements in this passage make it very clear that Jesus is not God incarnate. If Jesus was God, then how could Satan offer to give Him something that was already His? Satan has no power or authority to give God the kingdoms of the world. Just think about it...God might be allowing satan to have control of the kingdoms of the world now, but how ludicrous would it be for satan to offer to give back to God anything, since God is ultimately in control of absolutely everything?


And consider Jesus' response: ""Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve."" If Jesus was God, does this answer make any sense? He is telling satan that He (Jesus) will only serve God. Why would He say such a thing if He himself was God?

Read more: http://www.city-data.com/forum/religion ... z4YoBK77u2

i am with you on these points. good luck getting a straight forward answer that actually makes sense. i have tried.

Wait. WHAT?!?!?

Jenna,

All along you've been trying to argue that the Trinity isn't biblical because you believe the Holy Spirit isn't a person. Now you're "with UsagiTsukino" on The quote that's trying to argue that Christ isn't God?

So, in addition to not believing the Holy Spirit is God, you've been lying to us all along when you said that you do believe Christ is God?

[jenna]

Here is the rejects of the trinity


Hello,


I was raised Catholic, but later on in adulthood I started attending other churches. I believed the trinity just because that was what I was taught. But as I started reading the Bible on my own, my belief in the trinity became strained. I basically ended up asking myself "Do I cling to a belief even though I now know there are many verses that show it cannot be true?" After years of internal debate, I finally decided I could not, in good conscience, continue holding to the doctrine of the trinity. Below are some of the reasons why:
=========
John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.


If Jesus says The Father is greater than He was, then how can the trinity doctrine say that there are 3 co-EQUAL gods in one?
============
John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.


Jesus says that the Father was His God? How can God have a God? How many Gods are there then, if Jesus was also God according to the trinity doctrine?
============
John 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.


If Jesus is God, then why couldn't He do things on His own?
============
John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.


Jesus says that the Father who lives within Him is the one given credit for His good works. If Jesus was God, why couldn't He do the good works Himself?
=============
Matthew 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God...


Jesus makes it plain here. He considers Himself separate from God.
==============
Luke 2:52 And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man.


Trinitarians say Jesus was "fully God and fully man"...how could God increase in wisdom and in favor with Himself?
=============
Mark 1:13 And he was there in the wilderness forty days, tempted of Satan; and was with the wild beasts; and the angels ministered unto him.
James 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:


Jesus was tempted by Satan, but we are told that God cannot be tempted.
===============
Mark 13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.


God is all-knowing, but Jesus did not know when He would be returning to earth.
===============
John 3:34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.


God gave Jesus His Spirit beyond measure. If Jesus was God, how can this verse make sense? And If Jesus was God, why would He need to be given the Holy Spirit?
===============
Numbers 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?


God tells us that He is not human.
==============
Deuteronomy 18:18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.


God, in speaking about the coming Messiah, tells Moses that He will raise up a prophet that will be like Moses. Now, if Jesus the Messiah was God, then He certainly was not at all like unto Moses…and if Jesus was God why would God the Father need to put His words in Jesus' mouth?
==============
Matthew 4:8-10 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; 9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me. 10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.


The statements in this passage make it very clear that Jesus is not God incarnate. If Jesus was God, then how could Satan offer to give Him something that was already His? Satan has no power or authority to give God the kingdoms of the world. Just think about it...God might be allowing satan to have control of the kingdoms of the world now, but how ludicrous would it be for satan to offer to give back to God anything, since God is ultimately in control of absolutely everything?


And consider Jesus' response: ""Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve."" If Jesus was God, does this answer make any sense? He is telling satan that He (Jesus) will only serve God. Why would He say such a thing if He himself was God?

Read more: http://www.city-data.com/forum/religion ... z4YoBK77u2

i am with you on these points. good luck getting a straight forward answer that actually makes sense. i have tried.

Wait. WHAT?!?!?

Jenna,

All along you've been trying to argue that the Trinity isn't biblical because you believe the Holy Spirit isn't a person. Now you're "with UsagiTsukino" on The quote that's trying to argue that Christ isn't God?

So, in addition to not believing the Holy Spirit is God, you've been lying to us all along when you said that you do believe Christ is God?

i have made it very clear on where my thoughts are. Yes, Christ is God. He is God the Son, not God the Father. Two separate beings, one God.

[RickD]

jenna wrote:

i have made it very clear on where my thoughts are. Yes, Christ is God. He is God the Son, not God the Father. Two separate beings, one God.

Yes, I've read what you said, and how you try to believe in a contradiction that God the Son, and God the Father could somehow be one God with two different natures(separate beings).

But I'm not talking about that. I'm asking how you could be "with" UsagiTsukino's post that is questioning the deity of Christ?

So along with the first contradiction of yours, that one God can be two beings with two different natures, you also believe Christ is God, while simultaneously believing that Jesus Christ is not God?

Or, are you saying that God the Son IS God, but Jesus Christ, Mary's son, IS NOT God?

[jenna]

jenna wrote:

i have made it very clear on where my thoughts are. Yes, Christ is God. He is God the Son, not God the Father. Two separate beings, one God.

Yes, I've read what you said, and how you try to believe in a contradiction that God the Son, and God the Father could somehow be one God with two different natures(separate beings).

But I'm not talking about that. I'm asking how you could be "with" UsagiTsukino's post that is questioning the deity of Christ?

So along with the first contradiction of yours, that one God can be two beings with two different natures, you also believe Christ is God, while simultaneously believing that Jesus Christ is not God?

Or, are you saying that God the Son IS God, but Jesus Christ, Mary's son, IS NOT God?

lol, and you say that I am the one who is special. it is not really that hard to comprehend, how there can be one God and two beings.

the reason i am with the o.p. is because alot of the points he made were valid. i was not necessarily agreeing with him on whether or not Christ is God, but his questions and rather valid points against the trinity that no one has really answered.

[RickD]

jenna wrote:
lol, and you say that I am the one who is special. it is not really that hard to comprehend, how there can be one God and two beings.

There can't be. By definition, "being" is the nature or essence of a person.

So, to say The Son and Father are two different beings, by definition, you are saying they have two different natures. And one God cannot have two different natures.

the reason i am with the o.p. is because alot of the points he made were valid. i was not necessarily agreeing with him on whether or not Christ is God, but his questions and rather valid points against the trinity that no one has really answered.

So, the points In the quote about Christ not being God, are valid, even though you believe Christ is God? That makes no sense!

[jenna]

jenna wrote:
lol, and you say that I am the one who is special. it is not really that hard to comprehend, how there can be one God and two beings.

There can't be. By definition, "being" is the nature or essence of a person.

So, to say The Son and Father are two different beings, by definition, you are saying they have two different natures. And one God cannot have two different natures.

the reason i am with the o.p. is because alot of the points he made were valid. i was not necessarily agreeing with him on whether or not Christ is God, but his questions and rather valid points against the trinity that no one has really answered.

So, the points In the quote about Christ not being God, are valid, even though you believe Christ is God? That makes no sense!

again, you did not read what I said. i said the points about the TRINITY were valid.

and as far as one God having two different natures- i consider God to be a family, consisting of Father and Son. ONE GOD (family) two beings.

[RickD]

jenna wrote:
again, you did not read what I said. i said the points about the TRINITY were valid.

Jenna, maybe you need to reread the original post. Every point, WITHOUT EXCEPTION, that was brought up as reasons why the person couldn't believe in the Trinity anymore, were points trying to show why Christ isn't God. So, for you to say, "I am with you on these points", how else can we take that other than you are with the person that Christ is not God? The points you say you are with Usagi on, are all points that say Christ is not God.

And as far as one God having two different natures- i consider God to be a family, consisting of Father and Son. ONE GOD (family) two beings.

I know what you think. And telling me again, doesn't make it any less contradictory. God cannot be two beings. Two separate beings have two separate natures, BY DEFINITION.

[DBowling]

and as far as one God having two different natures- i consider God to be a family, consisting of Father and Son. ONE GOD (family) two beings.

Do you believe the following two statements are Scriptural?
1. God the Father is YHWH (Yahweh, Jehovah)
2. God the Son is YHWH