.......................................................Jesus is Yahweh God.............................................................
........................A Voice Crying
Isaiah prophesied that God Himself would visit His people:
"The voice of one crying in the wilderness: 'Prepare the way of the LORD; make straight in the desert A highway for our God. Every valley shall be exalted and every mountain and hill brought low; the crooked places shall be made straight and the rough places smooth; the glory of the LORD shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together; for the mouth of the LORD has spoken...O Zion, you who bring good tidings, get up into the high mountain; O Jerusalem, you who bring good tidings, lift up your voice with strength, lift it up, be not afraid; say to the cities of Judah, 'Behold your God!' Behold, the Lord GOD shall come with a strong hand, and His arm shall rule for Him; behold, His reward is with Him, and His work before Him. He will feed His flock like a shepherd; He will gather the lambs with His arm, and carry them in His bosom, and gently lead those who are with young." (Isaiah 40:3-11).
This great prophecy was fulfilled in Christ's first advent: "In those days John the Baptist came preaching in the wilderness of Judea, and saying, 'Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand!' For this is he who was spoken of by the prophet Isaiah, saying: 'The voice of one crying in the wilderness: "Prepare the way of the LORD; Make His paths straight."'" (Matthew 3:1-3, Mark 1:3, Luke 3:4).
John explained his mission in terms of Isaiah 40: "Then they said to him, 'Who are you, that we may give an answer to those who sent us? What do you say about yourself?' He said: 'I am "The voice of one crying in the wilderness: Make straight the way of the LORD," as the prophet Isaiah said.'" (John 1:22-23).
There's no room in Isaiah's prophecy for any two thousand year gap between the 'voice crying' and the One whose advent he's announcing. So either this is the blown prophecy of all time: either John the Baptist and Jesus goofed big-time in identifying John with Isaiah's 'voice crying in the wilderness'...or else Jesus Christ is Yahweh God, come to save His people!
......................Temple Visitor
Malachi prophesied that the Lord Himself would visit His temple:
"'Behold, I send My messenger, and he will prepare the way before Me. And the Lord, whom you seek, Will suddenly come to His temple, Even the Messenger of the covenant, In whom you delight. Behold, He is coming,' Says the LORD of hosts." (Malachi 3:1).
This prophecy has to be filed in the 'fulfilled prophecy' slot, because it's already happened. So Mark tells us: "As it is written in the Prophets: 'Behold, I send My messenger before Your face, Who will prepare Your way before You.'" (Mark 1:2). Jesus identified John the Baptist as the fore-runner of Malachi 3:1: "For this is he of whom it is written: 'Behold, I send My messenger before Your face, Who will prepare Your way before You.'" (Matthew 11:10). So did John the Baptist prepare the way in vain, for One who wasn't coming? No, Jesus is "the Lord, whom you seek", who suddenly came to His temple!
The Temple at Jerusalem was sacred to none but the living God, Yahweh. And Jesus 'came suddenly' to "His temple", carried as a baby, as a twelve-year old boy, and ultimately to cleanse and purify: "Then Jesus went into the temple of God and drove out all those who bought and sold in the temple, and overturned the tables of the money changers and the seats of those who sold doves. And He said to them, 'It is written, "My house shall be called a house of prayer," but you have made it a "den of thieves."' Then the blind and the lame came to Him in the temple, and He healed them." (Matthew 21:12-14).
.............Stone of Stumbling
Isaiah prophesied a "stone of stumbling":
"The LORD of hosts, Him you shall hallow; Let Him be your fear, And let Him be your dread. He will be as a sanctuary, But a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense To both the houses of Israel, As a trap and a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem. And many among them shall stumble; They shall fall and be broken, Be snared and taken." (Isaiah 8:13-15).
Isaiah's "stone of stumbling" is "the LORD of hosts". It's interesting to see the use the New Testament authors make of this "stone of stumbling":
"Therefore, to you who believe, He is precious; but to those who are disobedient, 'The stone which the builders rejected Has become the chief cornerstone,' and 'A stone of stumbling and a rock of offense.' They stumble, being disobedient to the word, to which they also were appointed." (1 Peter 2:7-8 );
"...For they stumbled at that stumbling stone. As it is written: 'Behold, I lay in Zion a stumbling stone and rock of offense, and whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.'" (Romans 9:32-33).
To the New Testament authors, Isaiah's "stone of stumbling" is Jesus Christ. The Bible testifies: Jesus Christ is the LORD of Hosts!
..............The Rock of Israel
Jesus is the Rock of Israel:
"Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, all ate the same spiritual food, and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ." (1 Corinthians 10:1-4).
Who is the Rock of Israel? Yahweh God!:
"He is the Rock, His work is perfect; for all His ways are justice, a God of truth and without injustice; righteous and upright is He." (Deuteronomy 32:4);
"But Jeshurun grew fat and kicked; you grew fat, you grew thick, you are obese! Then he forsook God who made him, and scornfully esteemed the Rock of his salvation...Of the Rock who begot you, you are unmindful, and have forgotten the God who fathered you." (Deuteronomy 32:15-18 );
"How could one chase a thousand, and two put ten thousand to flight, unless their Rock had sold them, and the LORD had surrendered them? For their rock is not like our Rock, even our enemies themselves being judges." (Deuteronomy 32:30-31);
"And he said: 'The LORD is my rock and my fortress and my deliverer...'" (2 Samuel 22:2; Psalm 18:2);
"The LORD lives! Blessed be my Rock! Let God be exalted, the Rock of my salvation!" (2 Samuel 22:47; Psalm 18:46);
"The God of Israel said, the Rock of Israel spoke to me: 'He who rules over men must be just, ruling in the fear of God.'" (2 Samuel 23:3);
"To You I will cry, O LORD my Rock: do not be silent to me, lest, if You are silent to me, I become like those who go down to the pit." (Psalm 28:1);
"For You are my rock and my fortress; therefore, for Your name's sake, lead me and guide me." (Psalm 31:3);
"From the end of the earth I will cry to You, when my heart is overwhelmed; lead me to the rock that is higher than I." (Psalm 61:2);
"Because you have forgotten the God of your salvation, and have not been mindful of the Rock of your stronghold..." (Isaiah 17:10);
"Then they remembered that God was their rock, and the Most High God their Redeemer." (Psalm 78:35).
Are there lots of rocks? If you listen to some , you'd think this Rock is part of a huge rock collection. But the Bible counts One:
"No one is holy like the LORD, for there is none besides You, nor is there any rock like our God." (1 Samuel 2:2);
"'For who is God, except the LORD? And who is a rock, except our God?'" (2 Samuel 22:32);
"For who is God, except the LORD? And who is a rock, except our God?" (Psalm 18:31);
"He only is my rock and my salvation; He is my defense; I shall not be greatly moved." (Psalm 62:2).
.............The First and the Last
Jesus identified Himself to John as "the first and the last":
"I was in the Spirit on the Lord's Day, and I heard behind me a loud voice, as of a trumpet, saying, 'I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last,'...Then I turned to see the voice that spoke with me. And having turned I saw seven golden lampstands, and in the midst of the seven lampstands One like the Son of Man, clothed with a garment down to the feet and girded about the chest with a golden band. His head and hair were white like wool, as white as snow, and His eyes like a flame of fire; His feet were like fine brass, as if refined in a furnace, and His voice as the sound of many waters; He had in His right hand seven stars, out of His mouth went a sharp two-edged sword, and His countenance was like the sun shining in its strength. And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. But He laid His right hand on me, saying to me, 'Do not be afraid; I am the First and the Last. I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of Hades and of Death." (Revelation 1:10-18 ).
Who is the First and the Last? Yahweh God!:
"Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel, and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: 'I am the First and I am the Last; besides Me there is no God." (Isaiah 44:6);
"'Listen to Me, O Jacob, and Israel, My called: I am He, I am the First, I am also the Last." (Isaiah 48:12).
....................Lord of all
John the Baptist said that Jesus Christ is "above all": "He who comes from above is above all; he who is of the earth is earthly and speaks of the earth. He who comes from heaven is above all." (John 3:31). This is the Lord who came down from heaven: "The first man was of the earth, made of dust; the second Man is the Lord from heaven." (1 Corinthians 15:47).
The Bible tells us that the LORD is "most high above all the earth": "For You, LORD, are most high above all the earth; You are exalted far above all gods." (Psalm 97:9); "The LORD is high above all nations, His glory above the heavens. Who is like the LORD our God, Who dwells on high, Who humbles Himself to behold The things that are in the heavens and in the earth?" (Psalm 113:4-6).
Peter calls Him "Lord of all": "The word which God sent to the children of Israel, preaching peace through Jesus Christ - He is Lord of all..." (Acts 10:36).
And who is the Lord of all? Yahweh God!: "Behold, the ark of the covenant of the Lord of all the earth is crossing over before you into the Jordan." (Joshua 3:11).
We call upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ for salvation. According to Paul, calling on the name of the Lord Jesus is calling on the "Lord over all": "For the Scripture says, 'Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.' For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. For 'whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved.'" (Romans 10:11-13). Jesus Christ is the Lord of all the earth!
.................The LORD our Righteousness
Some restrict the name 'Yahweh' to 'the Father-only', though there's no Biblical warrant for so doing. To the contrary, the Bible explicitly assigns the name 'Yahweh' to the Son as well:
"'Behold, the days are coming,' says the LORD, 'That I will raise to David a Branch of righteousness; A King shall reign and prosper, And execute judgment and righteousness in the earth. In His days Judah will be saved, And Israel will dwell safely; Now this is His name by which He will be called: THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS'" (Jeremiah 23:5-6).
There are some who nonchalantly note that Jerusalem is called by the same name (33:16), and of what significance can a name be that's so common? But when has it been unusual for a bride to take her husband's name?: "Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband." (Revelation 21:2).
Jesus lives up to His name, "THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS"...because He is the Lord, and He is our righteousness!:
"For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes." (Romans 10:3-4);
"Yet indeed I also count all things loss for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as rubbish, that I may gain Christ and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith..." (Philippians 3:8-9);
"But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God -- and righteousness and sanctification and redemption -- that, as it is written, 'He who glories, let him glory in the LORD.'" (1 Corinthians 1:30-31).
........................Holy, holy, holy
Isaiah saw "the LORD of hosts" in the temple:
"In the year that King Uzziah died, I saw the Lord sitting on a throne, high and lifted up, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above it stood seraphim; each one had six wings: with two he covered his face, with two he covered his feet, and with two he flew. And one cried to another and said: 'Holy, holy, holy is the LORD of hosts; The whole earth is full of His glory!' And the posts of the door were shaken by the voice of him who cried out, and the house was filled with smoke. So I said: 'Woe is me, for I am undone! Because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips; For my eyes have seen the King, The LORD of hosts.'" (Isaiah 6:1-5).
Whom did he see? John relates that it was Christ's glory he saw: God the Son. After quoting Isaiah 6:10, delivered to Isaiah at that same occasion, he says,
"These things Isaiah said when he saw His glory and spoke of Him. Nevertheless even among the rulers many believed in Him, but because of the Pharisees they did not confess Him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue..." (John 12:41-42).
.........................Captivity Captive
Psalm 68 sings a song of triumph:
"Let God arise, let His enemies be scattered; let those also who hate Him flee before Him...The chariots of God are twenty thousand, even thousands of thousands; the Lord is among them as in Sinai, in the Holy Place. You have ascended on high, You have led captivity captive; You have received gifts among men, even from the rebellious, that the LORD God might dwell there." (Psalm 68:1-18 ).
So to the Psalmist, the One who ascended on High is the LORD God. It's obvious to Paul who this refers to: Jesus Christ!:
"Therefore He says: 'When He ascended on high, He led captivity captive, and gave gifts to men.' (Now this, 'He ascended' -- what does it mean but that He also first descended into the lower parts of the earth? He who descended is also the One who ascended far above all the heavens, that He might fill all things.)" (Ephesians 4:8-9).
.....................Answered prayers
Jesus Christ "humbled himself" and made himself of no reputation:
"Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross." (Philippians 2:5-8 ).
He took on our nature in all its humility, and "learned obedience": a new experience, according to the author of Hebrews: "...who, in the days of His flesh, when He had offered up prayers and supplications, with vehement cries and tears to Him who was able to save Him from death, and was heard because of His godly fear, though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered." (Hebrews 5:7-8 ). This is why, although it's not His native estate to come before the Father as a humble petitioner, in His humility, having taken on our estate, He did so.
Now in His glory He hears our prayers. Paul called upon the Lord...and Jesus picked up on the line!: "Concerning this thing I pleaded with the Lord three times that it might depart from me. And He said to me, 'My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness.' Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me." (2 Corinthians 12:8-9). When the Lord to whom he prayed answered him, "My strength is made perfect in weakness", Paul understood "my strength" to be "the power of Christ"!
Stephen also prayed to the Lord: "And they stoned Stephen as he was calling on God and saying, 'Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.' Then he knelt down and cried out with a loud voice, 'Lord, do not charge them with this sin.' And when he had said this, he fell asleep." (Acts 7:59-60). Truly it's as the Bible teaches, "O You who hear prayer, to You all flesh will come." (Psalm 65:2).
.....................With all His saints
The LORD will come with all the saints:
"Then you shall flee through My mountain valley, for the mountain valley shall reach to Azal. Yes, you shall flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Thus the LORD my God will come, and all the saints with You." (Zechariah 14:5).
More precisely:
"And may the Lord make you increase and abound in love to one another and to all, just as we do to you, so that He may establish your hearts blameless in holiness before our God and Father at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all His saints." (1 Thessalonians 3:13).
......................Who forgives Sin
The LORD, the only savior, forgives the sins of His people:
"I have blotted out, like a thick cloud, your transgressions, and like a cloud, your sins. Return to Me, for I have redeemed you.'" (Isaiah 44:22).
"For Your name's sake, O LORD, Pardon my iniquity, for it is great...Look on my affliction and my pain, and forgive all my sins." (Psalm 25:11-18 ).
"Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered. Blessed is the man to whom the LORD does not impute iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no deceit." (Psalm 32:1-2).
"Bless the LORD, O my soul, and forget not all His benefits: Who forgives all your iniquities, Who heals all your diseases...as far as the east is from the west, so far has He removed our transgressions from us." (Psalm 103:2-12).
"I, even I, am He who blots out your transgressions for My own sake; and I will not remember your sins." (Isaiah 43:25).
"To God our Savior, Who alone is wise, Be glory and majesty Dominion and power, Both now and forever. Amen." (Jude 1:25)
This is why the Pharisees realized the magnitude of the claim Jesus was making about Himself when He forgave the paralyzed man: "When Jesus saw their faith, He said to the paralytic, 'Son, your sins are forgiven you.' And some of the scribes were sitting there and reasoning in their hearts, 'Why does this Man speak blasphemies like this? Who can forgive sins but God alone?'" (Mark 2:5-7). Who indeed?:
"Therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, put on tender mercies, kindness, humility, meekness, longsuffering; bearing with one another, and forgiving one another, if anyone has a complaint against another; even as Christ forgave you, so you also must do." (Colossians 3:13).
He is the Savior of the world: "Then they said to the woman, 'Now we believe, not because of what you said, for we ourselves have heard Him and we know that this is indeed the Christ, the Savior of the world.'" (John 4:42).
..................Giver of Life
Yahweh God is the fountain of life:
"For with You is the fountain of life; In Your light we see light. (Psalm 36:9).
To get down to detail, the source of life is Jehovah the Son:
"All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it." (John 1:3-5);
"For as the Father raises the dead and gives life to them, even so the Son gives life to whom He will." (John 5:21);
"Then Jesus spoke to them again, saying, 'I am the light of the world. He who follows Me shall not walk in darkness, but have the light of life.'" (John 8:12).
Life is the gift of God:
"'Now see that I, even I, am He, and there is no God besides Me; I kill and I make alive; I wound and I heal; Nor is there any who can deliver from My hand.'" (Deuteronomy 32:39);
"Our God is the God of salvation; And to GOD the Lord belong escapes from death." (Psalm 68:20).
And life is in Jesus' hand:
"Jesus said to her, 'I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?'...Now when He had said these things, He cried with a loud voice, 'Lazarus, come forth!' And he who had died came out bound hand and foot with graveclothes, and his face was wrapped with a cloth. Jesus said to them, 'Loose him, and let him go.'" (John 11:25-44).
...........Every Knee Shall Bow
The LORD promised that every knee would bow:
"Look to Me, and be saved, All you ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other. I have sworn by Myself; the word has gone out of My mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, that to Me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall take an oath." (Isaiah 45:22-23).
Paul fleshed this prophecy out with further detail:
"For to this end Christ died and rose and lived again, that He might be Lord of both the dead and the living. But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. For it is written: 'As I live, says the LORD, Every knee shall bow to Me, And every tongue shall confess to God.' So then each of us shall give account of himself to God." (Romans 14:9-12).
It's before the judgment seat of Christ that every knee shall bow: "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad." (2 Corinthians 5:10).
This should be sufficient for now, though this is
to be continued........
SoaringEagle
Jesus is Yahweh God
-
SoaringEagle
- Familiar Member
- Posts: 26
- Joined: Sat Nov 19, 2005 10:09 pm
-
B. W.
- Ultimate Member
- Posts: 8355
- Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2005 8:17 am
- Christian: Yes
- Location: Colorado
SoaringEagle wrote:No, see my God in three witnesses post. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
Thank you Soaring Eagle, you links say it all and all that needs to be said.Fortigurn wrote:Thanks. It's just that the arguments you've made here are classic Oneness arguments.
Many on the Forum have been in discussion with Mr. Fortigurn on the Trinity thread. For some odd reason, he bases his whole argument on the pseudo-supposition that since the Bible does not say "Three Witnesses' or 'Trinity' or 'God in three persons' in a direct quote from scripture, then all Christendom who understand these truths as clearly taught from scripture are Christen-dum.
Mr. Fortigurn cannot back up his own doctrines, as it is also derived from selected and slanted interpretations commonly used by the Jesus Seminar people.
Mr. Fortigurn believes that Jesus was only just a mere mortal man, a representative from God much like an anointed king or prophet would be. If his doctrine is true, then Jesus broke the law of God claiming who he was, God would have also lied when He stated that He would not share His Glory with another. As you can see, Mr. Fortigurn, cannot back up what he believes because to do so, involves massive scripture twisting, with the final result of proving God a Liar.
Soaring Eagle, you are most welcome to join in the Trinity Thread of this forum and repost your findings there. You are a most helpful worker for Christ our Lord!
That is far from an accurate description of my position and argument. That is not what I say, and that is not what I base my 'whole argument' on.B. W. wrote:Many on the Forum have been in discussion with Mr. Fortigurn on the Trinity thread. For some odd reason, he bases his whole argument on the pseudo-supposition that since the Bible does not say "Three Witnesses' or 'Trinity' or 'God in three persons' in a direct quote from scripture, then all Christendom who understand these truths as clearly taught from scripture are Christen-dum.
That is a gross accusation without any basis whatever. The only 'interpretations' I have quoted have been from entirely orthodox, well respected and in some cases almost ancient commentators such as Calvin, Grotius, Clarke, Gill and Robertson.Mr. Fortigurn cannot back up his own doctrines, as it is also derived from selected and slanted interpretations commonly used by the Jesus Seminar people.
You really need to look at that passage and understand what it says, rather than what you think it says. God gave His Name and His authority to an angel in the Old Testament, an angel who could act in His Name and represent Him completely. Do you call that a contradiction of what He says when He says He will not share His glory with another?Mr. Fortigurn believes that Jesus was only just a mere mortal man, a representative from God much like an anointed king or prophet would be. If his doctrine is true, then Jesus broke the law of God claiming who he was, God would have also lied when He stated that He would not share His Glory with another.
That is another false accusation.As you can see, Mr. Fortigurn, cannot back up what he believes because to do so, involves massive scripture twisting, with the final result of proving God a Liar.
-
B. W.
- Ultimate Member
- Posts: 8355
- Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2005 8:17 am
- Christian: Yes
- Location: Colorado
B. W. wrote:Many on the Forum have been in discussion with Mr. Fortigurn on the Trinity thread. For some odd reason, he bases his whole argument on the pseudo-supposition that since the Bible does not say "Three Witnesses' or 'Trinity' or 'God in three persons' in a direct quote from scripture, then all Christendom who understand these truths as clearly taught from scripture are Christen-dum.
My response: Then what is it? You have truly insulted many on this forum. If this is not your intent — then what is your position?Fortigurn wrote:That is far from an accurate description of my position and argument. That is not what I say, and that is not what I base my 'whole argument' on.
B. W. wrote:Mr. Fortigurn cannot back up his own doctrines, as it is also derived from selected and slanted interpretations commonly used by the Jesus Seminar people.
My Response: True, but you mock them. If you understand them, why do you remain convinced of your suppositions?Fortigurn wrote:That is a gross accusation without any basis whatever. The only 'interpretations' I have quoted have been from entirely orthodox, well respected and in some cases almost ancient commentators such as Calvin, Grotius, Clarke, Gill and Robertson.
B. W. wrote: Mr. Fortigurn believes that Jesus was only just a mere mortal man, a representative from God much like an anointed king or prophet would be. If his doctrine is true, then Jesus broke the law of God claiming who he was, God would have also lied when He stated that He would not share His Glory with another.
My Response: Hebrews 1:3-5 “The Son reflects God's own glory, and everything about him represents God exactly. He sustains the universe by the mighty power of his command. After he died to cleanse us from the stain of sin, he sat down in the place of honor at the right hand of the majestic God of heaven. This shows that God's Son is far greater than the angels, just as the name God gave him is far greater than their names. For God never said to any angel what he said to Jesus: "You are my Son. Today I have become your Father. "And again God said, "I will be his Father, and he will be my Son.” New Living TranslationFortigurn wrote:You really need to look at that passage and understand what it says, rather than what you think it says. God gave His Name and His authority to an angel in the Old Testament, an angel who could act in His Name and represent Him completely. Do you call that a contradiction of what He says when He says He will not share His glory with another?
B. W. wrote: As you can see, Mr. Fortigurn, cannot back up what he believes because to do so, involves massive scripture twisting, with the final result of proving God a Liar.
Fortigurn wrote:That is another false accusation.
My Response: Is it??
-
-
I have explained both my position and my argument in considerable detail. There is no need to describe it as you did. You only have to read my posts.B. W. wrote:B. W. wrote:Many on the Forum have been in discussion with Mr. Fortigurn on the Trinity thread. For some odd reason, he bases his whole argument on the pseudo-supposition that since the Bible does not say "Three Witnesses' or 'Trinity' or 'God in three persons' in a direct quote from scripture, then all Christendom who understand these truths as clearly taught from scripture are Christen-dum.My response: Then what is it?Fortigurn wrote:That is far from an accurate description of my position and argument. That is not what I say, and that is not what I base my 'whole argument' on.
If this is true, I'm deeply sorry. That was certainly not my intent.You have truly insulted many on this forum.
I have explained both my position and my argument in considerable detail. You only have to read my posts.If this is not your intent — then what is your position?
I don't 'mock' them. As I have pointed out, I actually agree with a lot of things they say. I only reject what I don't find in Scripture.B. W. wrote:Mr. Fortigurn cannot back up his own doctrines, as it is also derived from selected and slanted interpretations commonly used by the Jesus Seminar people.My Response: True, but you mock them. If you understand them, why do you remain convinced of your suppositions?Fortigurn wrote:That is a gross accusation without any basis whatever. The only 'interpretations' I have quoted have been from entirely orthodox, well respected and in some cases almost ancient commentators such as Calvin, Grotius, Clarke, Gill and Robertson.
What do you intend to prove with this quote?My Response: Hebrews 1:3-5 “The Son reflects God's own glory, and everything about him represents God exactly. He sustains the universe by the mighty power of his command. After he died to cleanse us from the stain of sin, he sat down in the place of honor at the right hand of the majestic God of heaven. This shows that God's Son is far greater than the angels, just as the name God gave him is far greater than their names. For God never said to any angel what he said to Jesus: "You are my Son. Today I have become your Father. "And again God said, "I will be his Father, and he will be my Son.” New Living Translation
It most certainly is.B. W. wrote: As you can see, Mr. Fortigurn, cannot back up what he believes because to do so, involves massive scripture twisting, with the final result of proving God a Liar.Fortigurn wrote:That is another false accusation.
My Response: Is it??