Trump's European Trip

[edwardmurphy]

If you really need me to make a list, then you're really not paying attention. And, seeing how you disagree with what Byblos listed, I'm not confident you really have any idea what it means to be left-wing. You think left is moderate.

Ok, so how am I wrong about what Byblos listed? I know what I know and I know what I think. I'm trying to figure out what you know and think. If the responses I get are links to the definitions of "liberal" and "conservative" or lists of nouns it doesn't tell me a thing about your reasoning.

[RickD]

ed wrote:
So to be clear, I'm not saying Obama was a conservative, because that would be ridiculous. I'm saying that he was a mainstream Democrat and his politics were, generally speaking, a bit left of center.

I pretty much agree with this quote. But, I think we differ on how big that "bit" really is. I'm thinking that you believe he's a little left of center. And I think he's closer to far left, than he is to center, with Bernie Sanders being one step to the right of the farthest left one can go. Obama is a socialist. Sanders is left of socialism.

[Byblos]

Iran
Syria
Israel
Healthcare
Trade
Welfare state
Etc, etc, etc, etc ....

What about them?

Iran? He tried to bring them into the international community in hopes that it would have a moderating effect on their outlook and give them a reason not to try and build nuclear weapons. For some reason a lot of people freaked out about that, as if he also melted down our bombers, cruise missiles, and drones. He didn't though, so the unwritten clause in the deal was that we could still bomb the Hell out of them any time we got the urge, same as always. But apparently that was liberal and wrong. So what should he have done? What would a conservative have done?

Syria? Rather than acting unilaterally, like the dictator the Republicans pretended he was, Obama asked Congress to authorize military force. Congress gauged the national mood - overwhelmingly against military intervention - and said no. And just so were clear, the Democrats split. It was the Republicans who overwhelmingly rejected the use of force. So what should Obama have done? And what part of his actions were rooted in progressivism?

Israel? As far as I know he continued to give them huge gobs of money and weapons and guarantee their right to exist while pressuring them to be more reasonable in their dealings with the Palestinians. I never really understood what all the crying was about there.

You mention healthcare, but the reality is that the ACA is a Republican bill that was put through as a compromise between liberal and conservative Democrats. Progressives didn't want the ACA, they wanted single payer. They got behind it, because that's how our partisan system works, but they didn't like it.

Trade? What, international trade agreements and globalism? That's was a key component of the Republican platform for years. Right up until Trump won the nomination, in fact.

The welfare state? Ok, fine, Obama was a progressive, so yes, he cared about peoples' welfare and that was reflected in his policies. But according to the conservative punditry Obama was slightly to the right of Lenin and Marx. That's [nonsense]. As I said, he's a centrist Democrat. That puts him to the right of Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren, and left of Joe Manchin.

So to be clear, I'm not saying Obama was a conservative, because that would be ridiculous. I'm saying that he was a mainstream Democrat and his politics were, generally speaking, a bit left of center.

In other words you disagree with the right. Which makes you a leftist by definition, not a centrist. So please don't pretend to be one. I don't blame you though, most people want to be seen as centrists, sort of middle ground, opposing none, satisfying all. Truth is no one is a centrist at heart. I, for one, am a card-carrying, unashamedly, unabashedly, proud rightist. Obama was no centrist, he is the very definition of liberal leftism. And the fact that you see him as a centrist speaks more about you than it does about him. He knows what he is.

[abelcainsbrother]

What do you think of it?

I thought that Trump was wonderful on his European trip.I think it is good to finally have a US President that is putting America first,like he said he would when he ran.He is just making sure that it is fair to America when we make deals and that America is not at a disadvantage or being taken advantage of.I think he gave Europe good advice to acknowledge the problems with Islamic terrorism and to drive them out of your country. Obama followed Trump around on his trip and met with Angela Merkel before she met with Trump so Trump knowing what Obama was up to let both her and Obama know that the days of taking advantage of America are over and that they need to pay their fair share especially with all of the possible threats we face.Trump is not being anti-Europe or anything like that he is just making sure that when we negotiate America is not getting taken advantage of.He is just putting America first while negotiating and I think that Europe will respect him for it even if they love the advantage they have had.

This is also sending a message to the European Union that the days of taking advantage of America are over and so we already know what the globalists think and they are panicked.