Wrong question! Question should be: HOW can there be a chicken - or anything else, for that matter. What is the original Source?JustHuman: The question should be "when was it a chicken?".
Are My Actions Determined?
- Philip
- Site Owner
- Posts: 9512
- Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 7:45 pm
- Christian: Yes
- Sex: Male
- Creation Position: Day-Age
- Location: Betwixt the Sea and the Mountains
Re: Are My Actions Determined?
-
- Established Member
- Posts: 243
- Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2017 6:53 am
- Christian: No
- Sex: Male
- Creation Position: I don't believe in creation
- Location: East in the Netherlands
Re: Are My Actions Determined?
The original source? The Devine source or the Evolutionary source?Philip wrote:Wrong question! Question should be: HOW can there be a chicken - or anything else, for that matter. What is the original Source?JustHuman: The question should be "when was it a chicken?".
- Philip
- Site Owner
- Posts: 9512
- Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 7:45 pm
- Christian: Yes
- Sex: Male
- Creation Position: Day-Age
- Location: Betwixt the Sea and the Mountains
Re: Are My Actions Determined?
JustHuman: The question should be "when was it a chicken?".
Philip: Wrong question! Question should be: HOW can there be a chicken - or anything else, for that matter. What is the original Source?
The ORIGINAL source - which has to be A) eternal, B) supremely intelligent, and C) unfathomably powerful - as it is the Source of all physical things, a good 11 billion years BEFORE, before there was yet anything yet in physical existence, much less, life, or even the necessary building blocks existed, so that anything would have been able to evolve. ALL physical things came from that original Source. Evolution arguments are about supposed processes supposedly at work FAR after what they would have been entirely dependent upon coming into existence - which is what the real question should be about. Evolution arguments are but a sideshow to that far more important question.JustHuman: The original source? The Devine source or the Evolutionary source?
-
- Board Moderator
- Posts: 9224
- Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:29 pm
- Christian: Yes
- Sex: Male
- Creation Position: Theistic Evolution
- Location: Ontario, Canada
Re: Are My Actions Determined?
Evolutionary arguments can only address actions that are in the betterment of the individual or the species as it comes to reproduction.
They can't address actions and choices that go against the driving force of the "selfish gene" ( such as abortion, homosexuality, abstinence, etc)
They can't address actions and choices that go against the driving force of the "selfish gene" ( such as abortion, homosexuality, abstinence, etc)
-
- Established Member
- Posts: 243
- Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2017 6:53 am
- Christian: No
- Sex: Male
- Creation Position: I don't believe in creation
- Location: East in the Netherlands
Re: Are My Actions Determined?
Why does the original has to be your ABC? Is it because you cannot imagine it any other way or is it because...???Philip wrote:JustHuman: The question should be "when was it a chicken?".Philip: Wrong question! Question should be: HOW can there be a chicken - or anything else, for that matter. What is the original Source?The ORIGINAL source - which has to be A) eternal, B) supremely intelligent, and C) unfathomably powerful - as it is the Source of all physical things, a good 11 billion years BEFORE, before there was yet anything yet in physical existence, much less, life, or even the necessary building blocks existed, so that anything would have been able to evolve. ALL physical things came from that original Source. Evolution arguments are about supposed processes supposedly at work FAR after what they would have been entirely dependent upon coming into existence - which is what the real question should be about. Evolution arguments are but a sideshow to that far more important question.JustHuman: The original source? The Devine source or the Evolutionary source?
There are good arguments for evolution, and also for an evolutinary Big Bang. They are not about 'supposedly anything' but about 'probable somethings'. You downplay evolution to upplay your Original Source (which is... God?).
-
- Established Member
- Posts: 243
- Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2017 6:53 am
- Christian: No
- Sex: Male
- Creation Position: I don't believe in creation
- Location: East in the Netherlands
Re: Are My Actions Determined?
Evolution is inderminate. It doesn't have to be betterments, just what works. Abortion, homosexuality, abstinence do not matter for evolution. It is us humans that are actively controlling, maybe even withholding and obstructing, evolution.PaulSacramento wrote:Evolutionary arguments can only address actions that are in the betterment of the individual or the species as it comes to reproduction.
They can't address actions and choices that go against the driving force of the "selfish gene" ( such as abortion, homosexuality, abstinence, etc)
-
- Board Moderator
- Posts: 9224
- Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:29 pm
- Christian: Yes
- Sex: Male
- Creation Position: Theistic Evolution
- Location: Ontario, Canada
Re: Are My Actions Determined?
The driving genetic and biological force of natural selection is reproduction.Justhuman wrote:Evolution is inderminate. It doesn't have to be betterments, just what works. Abortion, homosexuality, abstinence do not matter for evolution. It is us humans that are actively controlling, maybe even withholding and obstructing, evolution.PaulSacramento wrote:Evolutionary arguments can only address actions that are in the betterment of the individual or the species as it comes to reproduction.
They can't address actions and choices that go against the driving force of the "selfish gene" ( such as abortion, homosexuality, abstinence, etc)
A trait that benefits reproduction will be "selected" as "beneficial" and will be "passed on".
What works from an evolutionary stand point is what allows the species ( the individual gene) to survive to reproduce.
Homosexuality would not be viewed as a "beneficial" trait for obvious reasons.
Biology would not "drive" a "desire" or "impulse" or "instinct" to abort a pregnancy.
-
- Established Member
- Posts: 243
- Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2017 6:53 am
- Christian: No
- Sex: Male
- Creation Position: I don't believe in creation
- Location: East in the Netherlands
Re: Are My Actions Determined?
Agreed. Though homosexuality does occur in nature, be it very limited.PaulSacramento wrote:The driving genetic and biological force of natural selection is reproduction.Justhuman wrote:Evolution is inderminate. It doesn't have to be betterments, just what works. Abortion, homosexuality, abstinence do not matter for evolution. It is us humans that are actively controlling, maybe even withholding and obstructing, evolution.PaulSacramento wrote:Evolutionary arguments can only address actions that are in the betterment of the individual or the species as it comes to reproduction.
They can't address actions and choices that go against the driving force of the "selfish gene" ( such as abortion, homosexuality, abstinence, etc)
A trait that benefits reproduction will be "selected" as "beneficial" and will be "passed on".
What works from an evolutionary stand point is what allows the species ( the individual gene) to survive to reproduce.
Homosexuality would not be viewed as a "beneficial" trait for obvious reasons.
Biology would not "drive" a "desire" or "impulse" or "instinct" to abort a pregnancy.
'Passive' abortion, the expelling of a miscarriage, does also occur in nature.
-
- Board Moderator
- Posts: 9224
- Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:29 pm
- Christian: Yes
- Sex: Male
- Creation Position: Theistic Evolution
- Location: Ontario, Canada
Re: Are My Actions Determined?
Homosexuality doesn't occur in nature, as much as many people want it to.Justhuman wrote:Agreed. Though homosexuality does occur in nature, be it very limited.PaulSacramento wrote:The driving genetic and biological force of natural selection is reproduction.Justhuman wrote:Evolution is inderminate. It doesn't have to be betterments, just what works. Abortion, homosexuality, abstinence do not matter for evolution. It is us humans that are actively controlling, maybe even withholding and obstructing, evolution.PaulSacramento wrote:Evolutionary arguments can only address actions that are in the betterment of the individual or the species as it comes to reproduction.
They can't address actions and choices that go against the driving force of the "selfish gene" ( such as abortion, homosexuality, abstinence, etc)
A trait that benefits reproduction will be "selected" as "beneficial" and will be "passed on".
What works from an evolutionary stand point is what allows the species ( the individual gene) to survive to reproduce.
Homosexuality would not be viewed as a "beneficial" trait for obvious reasons.
Biology would not "drive" a "desire" or "impulse" or "instinct" to abort a pregnancy.
'Passive' abortion, the expelling of a miscarriage, does also occur in nature.
Bisexuality does, as does asexuality.
Homosexuality is the exclusive sexual partnering of two members of the same species and same gender.
Naturally, homosexual partners can't reproduce and would, naturally, die out.
Bisexuality does exist of course and is quite observable.
It should be noted that because something exists in nature in another species doesn't make natural for every species or any other species, nor does it even make it right ( as moral creatures the right and wrong of things matter deeply to us).
Rape exists in nature ( dolphins for example), infanticide, and many other acts that no moral person would condone.
It is important to always realize that what exists in nature and "natural" for other species has nothing to do with our species.
We are a rational and intellectual species, not just and instinctual one.
That is why we CAN and DO over come instinctive inclinations and impulses.
IE: free will, we choose freely among the choices we are presented with, even if the choices are limited or undesirable.
Free will is really about one thing: Responsibility for ones actions.
People that believe we have free will believe in responsibility for one actions ( to what ever degree one can eb responsible).
Those that don't believe say that we are not responsible for our actions and simply "slaves" to our "selfish genes".
- RickD
- Make me a Sammich Member
- Posts: 22063
- Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:59 am
- Christian: Yes
- Sex: Male
- Creation Position: Day-Age
- Location: Kitchen
Re: Are My Actions Determined?
Which dictionary did this come from?paulS wrote:
Homosexuality is the exclusive sexual partnering of two members of the same species and same gender.
I haven't found any dictionary that doesn't define homosexuality as specific to people.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
-
- Board Moderator
- Posts: 9224
- Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:29 pm
- Christian: Yes
- Sex: Male
- Creation Position: Theistic Evolution
- Location: Ontario, Canada
Re: Are My Actions Determined?
Not sure what you are asking...RickD wrote:Which dictionary did this come from?paulS wrote:
Homosexuality is the exclusive sexual partnering of two members of the same species and same gender.
I haven't found any dictionary that doesn't define homosexuality as specific to people.
I didn't grab a "officially approved" definition, I defined base don the core words:
Homo
Sexuality.
Of course it is between people exclusively because, as I mentioned, it doesn't exist in nature ( animal kingdom).
- RickD
- Make me a Sammich Member
- Posts: 22063
- Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:59 am
- Christian: Yes
- Sex: Male
- Creation Position: Day-Age
- Location: Kitchen
Re: Are My Actions Determined?
I agree that homosexuality is pertaining to people only. But I disagree as to why. I say it's because by definition, it only pertains to people.PaulSacramento wrote:Not sure what you are asking...RickD wrote:Which dictionary did this come from?paulS wrote:
Homosexuality is the exclusive sexual partnering of two members of the same species and same gender.
I haven't found any dictionary that doesn't define homosexuality as specific to people.
I didn't grab a "officially approved" definition, I defined base don the core words:
Homo
Sexuality.
Of course it is between people exclusively because, as I mentioned, it doesn't exist in nature ( animal kingdom).
Just like murder pertains only to people. Animals kill other animals, but it's not murder. Animals have sex with animals of the same sex, but it's not homosexuality.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
-
- Established Member
- Posts: 243
- Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2017 6:53 am
- Christian: No
- Sex: Male
- Creation Position: I don't believe in creation
- Location: East in the Netherlands
Re: Are My Actions Determined?
As far as I know homosexual means between members of the same sex, not being specifically human.RickD wrote:I agree that homosexuality is pertaining to people only. But I disagree as to why. I say it's because by definition, it only pertains to people.PaulSacramento wrote:Not sure what you are asking...RickD wrote:Which dictionary did this come from?paulS wrote:
Homosexuality is the exclusive sexual partnering of two members of the same species and same gender.
I haven't found any dictionary that doesn't define homosexuality as specific to people.
I didn't grab a "officially approved" definition, I defined base don the core words:
Homo
Sexuality.
Of course it is between people exclusively because, as I mentioned, it doesn't exist in nature ( animal kingdom).
Just like murder pertains only to people. Animals kill other animals, but it's not murder. Animals have sex with animals of the same sex, but it's not homosexuality.
When is spoken of homosexuality in the animal kingdom everybody knows what is meant by that.
It is more often homosexual behaviour, than longlasting homosexual humanoid love.
I'm not sure how reliable wikipedia is in this, but searching there one can find some 'intersting' results.
- Philip
- Site Owner
- Posts: 9512
- Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 7:45 pm
- Christian: Yes
- Sex: Male
- Creation Position: Day-Age
- Location: Betwixt the Sea and the Mountains
Re: Are My Actions Determined?
Little history of the word (from Wikipedia):As far as I know homosexual means between members of the same sex, not being specifically human
The word homosexual translates literally as "of the same sex", being a hybrid of the Greek prefix homo- meaning "same" (as distinguished from the Latin root homo meaning human) and the Latin root sex meaning "sex".
The first known appearance of the term homosexual in print is found in an 1869 German pamphlet 143 des Preussischen Strafgesetzbuchs und seine Aufrechterhaltung als 152 des Entwurfs eines Strafgesetzbuchs für den Norddeutschen Bund ("Paragraph 143 of the Prussian Penal Code and Its Maintenance as Paragraph 152 of the Draft of a Penal Code for the North German Confederation"). The pamphlet advocated the repeal of Prussia's sodomy laws.
The first known use of homosexual in English is in Charles Gilbert Chaddock's 1892 translation of Richard von Krafft-Ebing's Psychopathia Sexualis, a study on sexual practices.[15]
-
- Board Moderator
- Posts: 9224
- Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:29 pm
- Christian: Yes
- Sex: Male
- Creation Position: Theistic Evolution
- Location: Ontario, Canada
Re: Are My Actions Determined?
I have never heard of one case of homosexual animals.
Animals that engage bisexual, what I like to call "available sex", yes there are many records of this BUT no record of any animals engaging SOLELY and EXCLUSIVELY in homosexual sex.
Not that I have head of anyways.
Animals that engage bisexual, what I like to call "available sex", yes there are many records of this BUT no record of any animals engaging SOLELY and EXCLUSIVELY in homosexual sex.
Not that I have head of anyways.