Hi everyone!
Am I correct that I have found other Christians who also believe in science and evolution? If so I am all in!
Please let me know if I have the right forum.
In Christ
GrandpapaPatrick
I'm New Here!
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grandpapapatrick
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RickD
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Re: I'm New Here!
Christians that believe in science and evolution?
What kind of crazy idea is that?
There may be a few Christians here that believe in that stuff.
Welcome to the board!
What kind of crazy idea is that?
There may be a few Christians here that believe in that stuff.
Welcome to the board!
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
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Philip
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Re: I'm New Here!
Grandpa??? PLEASE tell me that you're older than me!Hi everyone!
Am I correct that I have found other Christians who also believe in science and evolution? If so I am all in!
Please let me know if I have the right forum.
In Christ
GrandpapaPatrick
Welcome!
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grandpapapatrick
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Re: I'm New Here!
RickD- Are you trying to be funnily sarcastic?
I am currently writing a book on the history of the universe from a Christian world view. (well, my Christian world view) I see absolutely no conflict between evolution and the Christian world view. To say that God created us without evolution is to say that God created us without chemistry. Or He created us without quantum mechanics, He created us without DNA etc.
It is not a "crazy idea." or "stuff." I thought this website was called "Evidence for God FROM Science, not Evidence for God WITHOUT Science." The theory of evolution is one of those science concepts that has such a vast amount of evidence that it is no longer a theory, it is fact.
Philip- I'm 62, not sure if I am older or younger than you.
I am currently writing a book on the history of the universe from a Christian world view. (well, my Christian world view) I see absolutely no conflict between evolution and the Christian world view. To say that God created us without evolution is to say that God created us without chemistry. Or He created us without quantum mechanics, He created us without DNA etc.
It is not a "crazy idea." or "stuff." I thought this website was called "Evidence for God FROM Science, not Evidence for God WITHOUT Science." The theory of evolution is one of those science concepts that has such a vast amount of evidence that it is no longer a theory, it is fact.
Philip- I'm 62, not sure if I am older or younger than you.
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Kurieuo
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Re: I'm New Here!
Note in your book that origin of the universe is different to origin of the diverse forms of life (i.e., "species").grandpapapatrick wrote:I am currently writing a book on the history of the universe from a Christian world view. (well, my Christian world view) I see absolutely no conflict between evolution and the Christian world view.
How so?grandpapapatrick wrote:To say that God created us without evolution is to say that God created us without chemistry.
I don't see the obvious links. If one doesn't believe in evolution as the be-all and end-all, then they must deny QM, DNA, chemistry?grandpapapatrick wrote:Or He created us without quantum mechanics, He created us without DNA etc.
grandpapapatrick wrote:The theory of evolution is one of those science concepts that has such a vast amount of evidence that it is no longer a theory, it is fact.
PS. Welcome. You'll find a mix of beliefs here, some will agree, others not.
"Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." (Romans 10:13)
Re: I'm New Here!
Grandpa Patrick, you are a breath of fresh air. Welcome to the forum.grandpapapatrick wrote:RickD- Are you trying to be funnily sarcastic?
I am currently writing a book on the history of the universe from a Christian world view. (well, my Christian world view) I see absolutely no conflict between evolution and the Christian world view. To say that God created us without evolution is to say that God created us without chemistry. Or He created us without quantum mechanics, He created us without DNA etc.
It is not a "crazy idea." or "stuff." I thought this website was called "Evidence for God FROM Science, not Evidence for God WITHOUT Science." The theory of evolution is one of those science concepts that has such a vast amount of evidence that it is no longer a theory, it is fact.
Philip- I'm 62, not sure if I am older or younger than you.
And Rick being sarcastic? Naaa! Whatever gave you that idea (his signature line, perhaps?
)Let us proclaim the mystery of our faith: Christ has died, Christ is risen, Christ will come again.
Lord I am not worthy that you should enter under my roof, but only say the word and my soul shall be healed.
Lord I am not worthy that you should enter under my roof, but only say the word and my soul shall be healed.
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Nessa
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Re: I'm New Here!
Evolution is a fact? I would say...... no.
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Kurieuo
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Re: I'm New Here!
Spoil-sport.Nessa wrote:Evolution is a fact? I would say...... no.
"Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." (Romans 10:13)
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grandpapapatrick
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Re: I'm New Here!
Dear Kurieuo- well, it looks like there is an area of science that you need to learn about. We can't just pick and choose what science facts you want to and not want to believe in. "Oh, I believe in the strong force and the weak force, and gravitation but not the electro-magnetic force." You just can't be intellectually honest and pick and choose what science facts you want to believe in unless you have the EVIDENCE to convince scientists that they are wrong.
And Kurieuo, is there any reason why God could not use evolution to create you? Is he not powerful enough? Is God not wise enough to use evolution? Or is it Genesis that is throwing you off. Well suppose the Bible started with...
"In the beginning there was a singularity, (See, already all of mankind is lost.) "What is a singularity? What is this Dark Matter and Dark Energy stuff? What is this "strong force and weak force etc, etc."
It is hard for the modern educated American with some science knowledge to understand that one let alone people at the time of Moses!" So like when Jesus used parables to communicate more complicated idea to people unable to understand great spiritual truths, so Jesus used the parable of creation in one week was a parable to help the people of the time to understand the idea that God created everything, not just certain aspects of reality like the Greek and Roman gods.
If God created everything in a week, and God meant for us to use our powerful brains to try and discover the nature of nature then all of Cosmology is simply a 13.8 billion year wild goose chase. If I know Jesus like I do, he is not that mean, or mean at all.
And Nessa, I don't believe this is a pure democracy, is it?
Lest you think I am a scientist and maybe not a Christian I want to let you know that I accepted Jesus as my personal Lord and Savior when I was 18 and at 62 I love Jesus more than ever and I know a lot more about the bible than I do science.
Love in Christ,
GrandpapaPatrick
And Kurieuo, is there any reason why God could not use evolution to create you? Is he not powerful enough? Is God not wise enough to use evolution? Or is it Genesis that is throwing you off. Well suppose the Bible started with...
"In the beginning there was a singularity, (See, already all of mankind is lost.) "What is a singularity? What is this Dark Matter and Dark Energy stuff? What is this "strong force and weak force etc, etc."
It is hard for the modern educated American with some science knowledge to understand that one let alone people at the time of Moses!" So like when Jesus used parables to communicate more complicated idea to people unable to understand great spiritual truths, so Jesus used the parable of creation in one week was a parable to help the people of the time to understand the idea that God created everything, not just certain aspects of reality like the Greek and Roman gods.
If God created everything in a week, and God meant for us to use our powerful brains to try and discover the nature of nature then all of Cosmology is simply a 13.8 billion year wild goose chase. If I know Jesus like I do, he is not that mean, or mean at all.
And Nessa, I don't believe this is a pure democracy, is it?
Lest you think I am a scientist and maybe not a Christian I want to let you know that I accepted Jesus as my personal Lord and Savior when I was 18 and at 62 I love Jesus more than ever and I know a lot more about the bible than I do science.
Love in Christ,
GrandpapaPatrick
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Philip
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Re: I'm New Here!
Patrick - you ARE older than me!
Many on this website accept belief in an old earth (4.5 billion years old) and an ancient (13.73 billion years old) universe (I do!) - but they do not believe in macroevolution. There will be some who, like me, believe in progressive creationism - meaning, that species are distinct and did not change (evolved) into subsequent and new species, that God created anew, at points, while also allowing extinctions. As HE created the very coding and designs for all species, it should be unsurprising that you see similar designs and genetics betwixt species. Designs for all manner of animals have similarities that are adaptable across species - and a common Designer can easily account for this. Also, you can't read Genesis like a science book or all literally.
There is very good evidence that when Moses wrote the Genesis Creation accounts, that he was not referencing scientific understandings at all, but instead God, through Moses, was correcting 400+ years of the pagan creation myths that Israel had absorbed in Egypt. Educate yourself upon the ancient Egyptian and Mesopotamian creation myths and you will find that they are eerily similar, albeit with very key and important differences that revolved around Yahweh. The other thing is, there are serious theological problems in how Adam and Eve were created (AFTER all the animals were complete, instantly, and independent of animals, that aren't in agreement with evolution. It is also quite possible that Adam and Eve were NOT the first humans, but that the creation accounts in Genesis 1 and 2 are speaking of two different creations - MANKIND first, and subsequently (how much later?), Adam and Eve are created as the line of Christ and all believers. This MIGHT account for some of the challenges between very early dates for homo sapiens, and what dates are debated concerning Adam and Eve, the Flood of Noah, etc.
Do you believe Adam and Eve were real humans? Do you believe they evolved from animals?
Whatever, you will find that all of these things have been discussed over and over, for years, on this forum. But, welcome!
Many on this website accept belief in an old earth (4.5 billion years old) and an ancient (13.73 billion years old) universe (I do!) - but they do not believe in macroevolution. There will be some who, like me, believe in progressive creationism - meaning, that species are distinct and did not change (evolved) into subsequent and new species, that God created anew, at points, while also allowing extinctions. As HE created the very coding and designs for all species, it should be unsurprising that you see similar designs and genetics betwixt species. Designs for all manner of animals have similarities that are adaptable across species - and a common Designer can easily account for this. Also, you can't read Genesis like a science book or all literally.
There is very good evidence that when Moses wrote the Genesis Creation accounts, that he was not referencing scientific understandings at all, but instead God, through Moses, was correcting 400+ years of the pagan creation myths that Israel had absorbed in Egypt. Educate yourself upon the ancient Egyptian and Mesopotamian creation myths and you will find that they are eerily similar, albeit with very key and important differences that revolved around Yahweh. The other thing is, there are serious theological problems in how Adam and Eve were created (AFTER all the animals were complete, instantly, and independent of animals, that aren't in agreement with evolution. It is also quite possible that Adam and Eve were NOT the first humans, but that the creation accounts in Genesis 1 and 2 are speaking of two different creations - MANKIND first, and subsequently (how much later?), Adam and Eve are created as the line of Christ and all believers. This MIGHT account for some of the challenges between very early dates for homo sapiens, and what dates are debated concerning Adam and Eve, the Flood of Noah, etc.
Do you believe Adam and Eve were real humans? Do you believe they evolved from animals?
Whatever, you will find that all of these things have been discussed over and over, for years, on this forum. But, welcome!
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Kurieuo
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Re: I'm New Here!
A lot of assumptions being made. I'd recommend maybe spending a little time searching for and reading over some exchanges on the board. You can search by user, I'm sure you'll find some interesting exchanges between myself and other members on the board, especially to do with evolution, creation and the like.grandpapapatrick wrote:Dear Kurieuo- well, it looks like there is an area of science that you need to learn about. We can't just pick and choose what science facts you want to and not want to believe in. "Oh, I believe in the strong force and the weak force, and gravitation but not the electro-magnetic force." You just can't be intellectually honest and pick and choose what science facts you want to believe in unless you have the EVIDENCE to convince scientists that they are wrong.
And Kurieuo, is there any reason why God could not use evolution to create you? Is he not powerful enough? Is God not wise enough to use evolution? Or is it Genesis that is throwing you off. Well suppose the Bible started with...
"In the beginning there was a singularity, (See, already all of mankind is lost.) "What is a singularity? What is this Dark Matter and Dark Energy stuff? What is this "strong force and weak force etc, etc."
"Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." (Romans 10:13)
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jenna
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Re: I'm New Here!
welcome to the board, Grandpa! just a few rules to go by while you are here:
1) ignore Rick.
2) ignore Rick
1) ignore Rick.
2) ignore Rick
some things are better left unsaid, which i generally realize after i have said them
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Gabrielman
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Re: I'm New Here!
Welcome! There are a variety of beliefs here, from young earth creation to old earth creation. It will be fun to have talks about these things!grandpapapatrick wrote:Hi everyone!
Am I correct that I have found other Christians who also believe in science and evolution? If so I am all in!
Please let me know if I have the right forum.
In Christ
GrandpapaPatrick
and ignore Rick while you're at itjenna wrote:1) ignore Rick.
2) ignore Rick
Once I was trapped in a perpetual night, without even a star to light the sky. Now I stand in the glory of the Son, and not even a faint shadow of darkness remains.
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Nessa
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Re: I'm New Here!
Dont get toooo excited there, PhilPhilip wrote:Patrick - you ARE older than me!
Its only by two years
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grandpapapatrick
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Re: I'm New Here!
What "assumptions" am I making? I thought I was being pretty straight forward.
With an accelerating and expanding universe, does a 6000 year old earth make any sense at all? Einstein was strongly in favor of a static universe because that is what he thought God would have created. To him it made no sense for God to create a changing universe. But when Hubble came out with the evidence he had no choice but to give in to the evidence. There is a vast amount of data clearly showing that the earth is vastly older than 6000 years old. Again we are back to the wild goose chase. God is not that mean. God is love. Clearly he gave us all this gray matter to be used. And God clearly wants us to study the wonderful universe that witnesses to His glory. Does it make any sense that he would leave behind evidence that lies.
One simple example is the craters on the moon. In no time in human history has anyone reported vast amounts of asteroids hitting the moon. So if God in that first week created the moon in one day with all the craters...Why would God create a moon that lies? A moon with evidence that at one time in the past vast numbers of asteroids impacted the moon, yet it never happened. Again, another mental wild goose chase. That is unlike the God I know.
There are a lot of other examples I could give but again, you can't pick and choose the scientific evidence that you are going to believe. Either you accept scientific evidence or you don't, unless you are going to produce your own evidence that challenges existing evidence. 
Time to go to bed. See you later. Big hug to all!
With an accelerating and expanding universe, does a 6000 year old earth make any sense at all? Einstein was strongly in favor of a static universe because that is what he thought God would have created. To him it made no sense for God to create a changing universe. But when Hubble came out with the evidence he had no choice but to give in to the evidence. There is a vast amount of data clearly showing that the earth is vastly older than 6000 years old. Again we are back to the wild goose chase. God is not that mean. God is love. Clearly he gave us all this gray matter to be used. And God clearly wants us to study the wonderful universe that witnesses to His glory. Does it make any sense that he would leave behind evidence that lies.
One simple example is the craters on the moon. In no time in human history has anyone reported vast amounts of asteroids hitting the moon. So if God in that first week created the moon in one day with all the craters...Why would God create a moon that lies? A moon with evidence that at one time in the past vast numbers of asteroids impacted the moon, yet it never happened. Again, another mental wild goose chase. That is unlike the God I know.
There are a lot of other examples I could give but again, you can't pick and choose the scientific evidence that you are going to believe. Either you accept scientific evidence or you don't, unless you are going to produce your own evidence that challenges existing evidence.
Time to go to bed. See you later. Big hug to all!