Kids and faith

[melanie]

I grew up in what would be considered a conservative Christian environment, I was baptised Lutheran, went through catholic schooling, attended Presbyterian Sunday school and frequented baptist and Pentecostal churches.
My personal journey has led me to quite an unconventional place of being non religious, not a participant in the current hierarchy of organised Christianity. It's a very personal path and I don't begrudge or judge anyone for their own path and believe that God speaks to us individually but I've questioned and struggled with how that will impact my kids.
I want them to believe...
Faith is not only beautiful but soul fulfilling and a compass to nagivate through life.
When they asked why they weren't Catholic but attending a catholic school, why they weren't baptised at all, why we don't attend church it brought up many discussions.
Over the years we've had so many thought provoking talks, questions about science, creation and belief and I've presented them with the eclectic view of every and all. Always maintaining that belief does not negate critical, scientific thinking.
The one thing I have always wanted is for them to be free thinkers, I've told them since they were little to find their own truth.
It's been a paradox of me unashamedly telling them to not adopt the beliefs of others but always to live by the golden rule of kindness.
Love is the greatest lesson you can teach your child because if they get that, I mean really understand that compassion and empathy are the most heart felt, natural expressions of humanity then Jesus naturally becomes the author of that narrative.
Whilst I've never been religious in raising my kids, goodness has been at the forefront and I've always shared my strong, unfailingly belief as a narrative not as a
prerequisite.
In the last few months I've been blown away by their faith. Not in any singular moment but in their worldview.
They have both expressed a deep and personal belief in Christ, that they are navigating on their own terms.
My fear of not pressing religion on them and the effect has resulted in faith anyways but in a way that respects their journey and I think builds a stronger foundation in the long run.
You can't force faith on anyone, it's too personal.

[RickD]

Thank God that you didn't brainwash your kids with your leftist, liberal views. And they were smart enough to go down a different path!

[melanie]

Haha cheeky bugger!
The fact that I'm a swing voter between our two main parties which are really quite closely aligned is a mute point . What a crazy notion that instead of being one eyed politically, a person can consider each candidate and their policies and vote accordingly!
And....in line with my post the last thing I would want is my kids to blindly follow anyone, myself included politically or spiritually.
Seriously though I think it's no secret how we are raised plays a major role in our worldview and I've always instilled that it's most important that their biggest influencer is the one to question most.
My Son in particular is quite conservative in his opinions and I wouldn't be at all surprised if that is reflected as he gets older in his politics. He's almost 16 so that's not that far away!!
But spirituality has nothing to do with politics and I couldn't care less who they vote for but I do care who they believe in.

[PaulSacramento]

Lead and preach the Gospel and, when you really have to, you can even use words.

[RickD]

Mel wrote:
But spirituality has nothing to do with politics and I couldn't care less who they vote for but I do care who they believe in.

I disagree. I've found that my faith, my spirituality if you will, is reflected in everything in my life. Including my political views.

[melanie]

Paul in my experience growing up I heard a lot of preaching but not often did that translate to action. There was charity but rarely done gratuitously. I do also have very fond memories of people and experiences that touched me deeply and helped shape my faith.
I've taken an approach that is more lead than preach. Words are cheap and easily spoken but actions and behaviour are harder to feign.
I love the parables of Jesus, the imagery and lessons are simple yet profound. Lessons in judgment, humility and love that I've often talked about but I've never preached at them in an attempt to convert them because I believe children are innately connected to Christ. I've just tried to nurture all the principals of Jesus.
My kids know how deeply I believe, it is the foundation of who I am so in that regard I've raised them in faith but just not in religion.

[abelcainsbrother]

I grew up in what would be considered a conservative Christian environment, I was baptised Lutheran, went through catholic schooling, attended Presbyterian Sunday school and frequented baptist and Pentecostal churches.
My personal journey has led me to quite an unconventional place of being non religious, not a participant in the current hierarchy of organised Christianity. It's a very personal path and I don't begrudge or judge anyone for their own path and believe that God speaks to us individually but I've questioned and struggled with how that will impact my kids.
I want them to believe...
Faith is not only beautiful but soul fulfilling and a compass to nagivate through life.
When they asked why they weren't Catholic but attending a catholic school, why they weren't baptised at all, why we don't attend church it brought up many discussions.
Over the years we've had so many thought provoking talks, questions about science, creation and belief and I've presented them with the eclectic view of every and all. Always maintaining that belief does not negate critical, scientific thinking.
The one thing I have always wanted is for them to be free thinkers, I've told them since they were little to find their own truth.
It's been a paradox of me unashamedly telling them to not adopt the beliefs of others but always to live by the golden rule of kindness.
Love is the greatest lesson you can teach your child because if they get that, I mean really understand that compassion and empathy are the most heart felt, natural expressions of humanity then Jesus naturally becomes the author of that narrative.
Whilst I've never been religious in raising my kids, goodness has been at the forefront and I've always shared my strong, unfailingly belief as a narrative not as a
prerequisite.
In the last few months I've been blown away by their faith. Not in any singular moment but in their worldview.
They have both expressed a deep and personal belief in Christ, that they are navigating on their own terms.
My fear of not pressing religion on them and the effect has resulted in faith anyways but in a way that respects their journey and I think builds a stronger foundation in the long run.
You can't force faith on anyone, it's too personal.

I think alot of people are rejecting certian elements in Christianity.I see a remnant of people who know certian elements in Christianity are fake and do not represent the real church.But at the same time their faith in Christ,his word and the gospel has not changed.There is alot of corruption in the church and I actually believe that God is more angry at his church than the country they live in.

Like here in America the biggest reason for the decline of morality has mostly to do with the church and Christians who don't know how to stand up for what is right.They don't know how to take a stand for what is right and don't do anything to try to try to counter evil elements in our country that lead to the decline.

I mean Christians are to never lay down our arms and yet so much of the church are like wimps afraid of their own shadows afraid to stand up and speak out and have became worthless.And yet they preach things like God is angry at America and is going to pour judgment out on America when God is really angry at their lack of ability to take a stand for what is right and to hold ground once you've gained it.

This is why nothing has been done about abortion and yet Christians act like it is the worst thing and is angering God when God is angry at them for not doing anything about it. One of the reasons is the 501C3 tax exempt status that the church has signed on to which because they take money from the government instead of just relying on ties and offerrings shuts them up and makes the unneffective.

Donald Trump recently signed an executive order to do away with the 501c3 and he met with Christian leaders and explained what he wanted to do to give them back their free speech. Donald Trump explained to them that they were parttly to blame for the state of America and yet they just sat there in their seat like it is no big deal.When they should have stood up and gave him a standing ovation they just sat there like it is no big deal.These are all prominant Christian ministers too.

It is like they have no intention of taking a stand against evil because they might stir up controversy,etc. It is a shame that the church has became so inneffective and yet wants to remain that way but they whine and complain about the immorality in America and preach about how angry God is and how judgment is going to be poured out when they are not willing to do anything about it.

[melanie]

Mel wrote:
But spirituality has nothing to do with politics and I couldn't care less who they vote for but I do care who they believe in.

I disagree. I've found that my faith, my spirituality if you will, is reflected in everything in my life. Including my political views.

That is both true and untrue as far as I see it.
Faith is such a centralised aspect of a person that it will go onto impact or should impact their stance in all aspects of life.
So whilst a persons political stance should involve their faith, faith does not define a political stance.
There is a big difference.
Secular politics which it is and the policies that support any given party are a representation of social and economic views. We then in good faith navigate and decide what best represents or reflects our own personal views taking into account personal, religious and spiritual values.
But a vote for conservative or liberal does not define a persons faith, sure worldview plays into individual choice but I certainly wouldn't be questioning my children's faith one way or the other if one voted conservative and the other liberal.

[RickD]

Mel wrote:
But spirituality has nothing to do with politics and I couldn't care less who they vote for but I do care who they believe in.

I disagree. I've found that my faith, my spirituality if you will, is reflected in everything in my life. Including my political views.

That is both true and untrue as far as I see it.
Faith is such a centralised aspect of a person that it will go onto impact or should impact their stance in all aspects of life.
So whilst a persons political stance should involve their faith, faith does not define a political stance.
There is a big difference.
Secular politics which it is and the policies that support any given party are a representation of social and economic views. We then in good faith navigate and decide what best represents or reflects our own personal views taking into account personal, religious and spiritual values.
But a vote for conservative or liberal does not define a persons faith, sure worldview plays into individual choice but I certainly wouldn't be questioning my children's faith one way or the other if one voted conservative and the other liberal.

In not sure that liberal and conservative have the same meanings in the US and Australia.

[Philip]

If you want your kids to have faith, you need to both model it AND provide them with the many amazing evidences for God's existence, for the truth of the Bible, for the historical things of Scripture, of prophecy, from science and history. These things all, collectively and very powerfully, help to establish the reality of God / Jesus, His desires for them, and to be able to withstand the lies and distortions about God and Scripture that the culture and many of their friends will be throwing at them.

EVERY Christian, in weak moments, have doubts. We wonder if our prayers are just echoing off the ceiling and we've deluded ourselves into faith. But the more you know about science, history, Scripture, prophecy, etc., the more when one has such doubting moments, their almost next thought, as they dwell upon what they've learned, is, "How silly to doubt God's/Jesus' existence and Who they are." And if kids don't develop satisfactory answers to those big, dangerous questions and distortions that they will continually encounter, even if they have faith in Christ, those unanswered questions and issues will be like a huge boat anchor dragging upon their faith, meaning that instead of being free to focus upon their RELATIONSHIP with God, and growing within it, those many things that sow doubt will keep them looking ever backwards and all around, still filled with troubling doubts. And thus their faith might be either prevented or will likely remain timid and burdened by the assertions of skeptics.

I'd also introduce them to godandscience.org - at least the many topic documents and references on the site, if not the discussion board. As well as other Scripturally based apologetics books and online sources.

[melanie]

I grew up in what would be considered a conservative Christian environment, I was baptised Lutheran, went through catholic schooling, attended Presbyterian Sunday school and frequented baptist and Pentecostal churches.
My personal journey has led me to quite an unconventional place of being non religious, not a participant in the current hierarchy of organised Christianity. It's a very personal path and I don't begrudge or judge anyone for their own path and believe that God speaks to us individually but I've questioned and struggled with how that will impact my kids.
I want them to believe...
Faith is not only beautiful but soul fulfilling and a compass to nagivate through life.
When they asked why they weren't Catholic but attending a catholic school, why they weren't baptised at all, why we don't attend church it brought up many discussions.
Over the years we've had so many thought provoking talks, questions about science, creation and belief and I've presented them with the eclectic view of every and all. Always maintaining that belief does not negate critical, scientific thinking.
The one thing I have always wanted is for them to be free thinkers, I've told them since they were little to find their own truth.
It's been a paradox of me unashamedly telling them to not adopt the beliefs of others but always to live by the golden rule of kindness.
Love is the greatest lesson you can teach your child because if they get that, I mean really understand that compassion and empathy are the most heart felt, natural expressions of humanity then Jesus naturally becomes the author of that narrative.
Whilst I've never been religious in raising my kids, goodness has been at the forefront and I've always shared my strong, unfailingly belief as a narrative not as a
prerequisite.
In the last few months I've been blown away by their faith. Not in any singular moment but in their worldview.
They have both expressed a deep and personal belief in Christ, that they are navigating on their own terms.
My fear of not pressing religion on them and the effect has resulted in faith anyways but in a way that respects their journey and I think builds a stronger foundation in the long run.
You can't force faith on anyone, it's too personal.

I think alot of people are rejecting certian elements in Christianity.I see a remnant of people who know certian elements in Christianity are fake and do not represent the real church.But at the same time their faith in Christ,his word and the gospel has not changed.There is alot of corruption in the church and I actually believe that God is more angry at his church than the country they live in.

Like here in America the biggest reason for the decline of immorality has mostly to do with the church and Christians who don't know how to stand up for what is right.They don't know how to take a stand for what is right and don't do anything to try to try to counter evil elements in our country that lead to the decline.

I mean Christians are to never lay down our arms and yet so much of the church are like wimps afraid of their own shadows afraid to stand up and speak out and have became worthless.And yet they preach things like God is angry at America and is going to pour judgment out on America when God is really angry at their lack of ability to take a stand for what is right and to hold ground once you've gained it.

This is why nothing has been done about abortion and yet Christians act like it is the worst thing and is angering God when God is angry at them for not doing anything about it. One of the reasons is the 501C3 tax exempt status that the church has signed on to which because they take money from the government instead of just relying on ties and offerrings shuts them up and makes the unneffective.

Donald Trump recently signed an executive order to do away with the 501c3 and he met with Christian leaders and explained what he wanted to do to give them back their free speech. Donald Trump explained to them that they were parttly to blame for the state of America and yet they just sat there in their seat like it is no big deal.When they should have stood up and gave him a standing ovation they just sat there like it is no big deal.These are all prominant Christian ministers too.

It is like they have no intention of taking a stand against evil because they might stir up controversy,etc. It is a shame that the church has became so inneffective and yet wants to remain that way but they whine and complain about the immorality in America and preach about how angry God is and how judgment is going to be poured out when they are not willing to do anything about it.

Abel I love your tenacity and that you are consistent and heartfelt in all that you believe and in the spirit of this thread you are passionate in how your faith is at the forefront of your worldview and political stance but I'm sure it's no surprise that I entirely disagree with almost everything you've said.
The one thing that stands out the most is "Christians are never to lay down their arms", that is not a tenent of Jesus but sounds more like a military manifesto.
You know Jesus could have whipped some serious a*s, at a time when the 'church' was much more corrupt than probably even today but chose a different approach. If you want a military conquerer then I suggest you look into Islam.
Read the New Testament, I'm sure you've read it Abel but I suggest you read it again with a cup of tea and a comfy chair. Swap the tea for Rum it's more your thing but you are much too invested in politics, on a spiritual level.
Abel God isn't reliant on man for the fulfilment of his plan, He's not perplexed wondering what happened, beating his chest, cursing the 'church' or America and the 501c3 tax except. A little perspective is needed.
Rest easy, God is in control even when everything else seems like it isn't

[PaulSacramento]

Paul in my experience growing up I heard a lot of preaching but not often did that translate to action. There was charity but rarely done gratuitously. I do also have very fond memories of people and experiences that touched me deeply and helped shape my faith.
I've taken an approach that is more lead than preach. Words are cheap and easily spoken but actions and behaviour are harder to feign.
I love the parables of Jesus, the imagery and lessons are simple yet profound. Lessons in judgment, humility and love that I've often talked about but I've never preached at them in an attempt to convert them because I believe children are innately connected to Christ. I've just tried to nurture all the principals of Jesus.
My kids know how deeply I believe, it is the foundation of who I am so in that regard I've raised them in faith but just not in religion.

Indeed, that is why it is important to LIVE the gospel.
Words have their place but actions and how we live our life is what reflects Christ in us.

[Philip]

As for being politically obsessed, as if WE don't have just the right leaders following just the right plans, of we're doomed and hopeless - think the Apostles had that mindset when they were roaming the Roman Empire's distant outpost of Ancient Palestine? No! God is not limited by empires or politics. But He is limited in the hearts of people who reject or resist Him - He won't force Himself upon them. And their permanent rejection of Him leads to disaster - both here and for eternity!

As for being properly armed, taking sensible military measures - Scripture instructs such. God does His part, and we are to do our parts, as we can, per Godly principles, and then He'll guide our pathways, instruct our hearts. Being a Christian doesn't mean not taking measures designed to meet real-world threats - whether personally, societally, or as a nation. All of these measures are supported across Scripture. But while we are to prepare ourselves to the level of known threats, we are not to base our the faith of our well being upon such things - it is God who protects - He wants us to do our part, to use our common sense and judgement, while always looking to Him for the ultimate answers and judgement. These are not actions at odds with each other, but in harmony with Scripture's instructions.

[abelcainsbrother]

I grew up in what would be considered a conservative Christian environment, I was baptised Lutheran, went through catholic schooling, attended Presbyterian Sunday school and frequented baptist and Pentecostal churches.
My personal journey has led me to quite an unconventional place of being non religious, not a participant in the current hierarchy of organised Christianity. It's a very personal path and I don't begrudge or judge anyone for their own path and believe that God speaks to us individually but I've questioned and struggled with how that will impact my kids.
I want them to believe...
Faith is not only beautiful but soul fulfilling and a compass to nagivate through life.
When they asked why they weren't Catholic but attending a catholic school, why they weren't baptised at all, why we don't attend church it brought up many discussions.
Over the years we've had so many thought provoking talks, questions about science, creation and belief and I've presented them with the eclectic view of every and all. Always maintaining that belief does not negate critical, scientific thinking.
The one thing I have always wanted is for them to be free thinkers, I've told them since they were little to find their own truth.
It's been a paradox of me unashamedly telling them to not adopt the beliefs of others but always to live by the golden rule of kindness.
Love is the greatest lesson you can teach your child because if they get that, I mean really understand that compassion and empathy are the most heart felt, natural expressions of humanity then Jesus naturally becomes the author of that narrative.
Whilst I've never been religious in raising my kids, goodness has been at the forefront and I've always shared my strong, unfailingly belief as a narrative not as a
prerequisite.
In the last few months I've been blown away by their faith. Not in any singular moment but in their worldview.
They have both expressed a deep and personal belief in Christ, that they are navigating on their own terms.
My fear of not pressing religion on them and the effect has resulted in faith anyways but in a way that respects their journey and I think builds a stronger foundation in the long run.
You can't force faith on anyone, it's too personal.

I think alot of people are rejecting certian elements in Christianity.I see a remnant of people who know certian elements in Christianity are fake and do not represent the real church.But at the same time their faith in Christ,his word and the gospel has not changed.There is alot of corruption in the church and I actually believe that God is more angry at his church than the country they live in.

Like here in America the biggest reason for the decline of immorality has mostly to do with the church and Christians who don't know how to stand up for what is right.They don't know how to take a stand for what is right and don't do anything to try to try to counter evil elements in our country that lead to the decline.

I mean Christians are to never lay down our arms and yet so much of the church are like wimps afraid of their own shadows afraid to stand up and speak out and have became worthless.And yet they preach things like God is angry at America and is going to pour judgment out on America when God is really angry at their lack of ability to take a stand for what is right and to hold ground once you've gained it.

This is why nothing has been done about abortion and yet Christians act like it is the worst thing and is angering God when God is angry at them for not doing anything about it. One of the reasons is the 501C3 tax exempt status that the church has signed on to which because they take money from the government instead of just relying on ties and offerrings shuts them up and makes the unneffective.

Donald Trump recently signed an executive order to do away with the 501c3 and he met with Christian leaders and explained what he wanted to do to give them back their free speech. Donald Trump explained to them that they were parttly to blame for the state of America and yet they just sat there in their seat like it is no big deal.When they should have stood up and gave him a standing ovation they just sat there like it is no big deal.These are all prominant Christian ministers too.

It is like they have no intention of taking a stand against evil because they might stir up controversy,etc. It is a shame that the church has became so inneffective and yet wants to remain that way but they whine and complain about the immorality in America and preach about how angry God is and how judgment is going to be poured out when they are not willing to do anything about it.

Abel I love your tenacity and that you are consistent and heartfelt in all that you believe and in the spirit of this thread you are passionate in how your faith is at the forefront of your worldview and political stance but I'm sure it's no surprise that I entirely disagree with almost everything you've said.
The one thing that stands out the most is "Christians are never to lay down their arms", that is not a tenent of Jesus but sounds more like a military manifesto.
You know Jesus could have whipped some serious a*s, at a time when the 'church' was much more corrupt than probably even today but chose a different approach. If you want a military conquerer then I suggest you look into Islam.
Read the New Testament, I'm sure you've read it Abel but I suggest you read it again with a cup of tea and a comfy chair. Swap the tea for Rum it's more your thing but you are much too invested in politics, on a spiritual level.
Abel God isn't reliant on man for the fulfilment of his plan, He's not perplexed wondering what happened, beating his chest, cursing the 'church' or America and the 501c3 tax except. A little perspective is needed.
Rest easy, God is in control even when everything else seems like it isn't

No offense to you because I really like you and your perspective but I think you're wrong.I don't know if it is because of where you live or what but it is not God's will for the church to not take a stand against evil.What good is knowing all about the immorality in America when you're not willing to do anything to change it? When I say the church should not lay down their arms I'm talking about spiritual warfare weapons,not physical. But we live in a representative Republic and we as Christians can take a stand against evil.There are alot of things the church can do politically to overcome all of this immorality and yet the church is not even willing to and it is because of money because of the 501C3 where these churches who sign on to it get money from the government but in doing so are in bondage and are aligned with planned parenthood and other tax exempt entities.The church has been in this bondage system for so long that they have become weak and unneffective to take a stand.Money is more important for them.

[melanie]

If you want your kids to have faith, you need to both model it AND provide them with the many amazing evidences for God's existence, for the truth of the Bible, for the historical things of Scripture, of prophecy, from science and history. These things all, collectively and very powerfully, help to establish the reality of God / Jesus, His desires for them, and to be able to withstand the lies and distortions about God and Scripture that the culture and many of their friends will be throwing at them.

EVERY Christian, in weak moments, have doubts. We wonder if our prayers are just echoing off the ceiling and we've deluded ourselves into faith. But the more you know about science, history, Scripture, prophecy, etc., the more when one has such doubting moments, their almost next thought, as they dwell upon what they've learned, is, "How silly to doubt God's/Jesus' existence and Who they are." And if kids don't develop satisfactory answers to those big, dangerous questions and distortions that they will continually encounter, even if they have faith in Christ, those unanswered questions and issues will be like a huge boat anchor dragging upon their faith, meaning that instead of being free to focus upon their RELATIONSHIP with God, and growing within it, those many things that sow doubt will keep them looking ever backwards and all around, still filled with troubling doubts. And thus their faith might be either prevented or will likely remain timid and burdened by the assertions of skeptics.

I'd also introduce them to godandscience.org - at least the many topic documents and references on the site, if not the discussion board. As well as other Scripturally based apologetics books and online sources.

Some great advice Philip
Ironically my daughter has been the the one amoung her peers to openly confess belief. She attends the largest catholic high school in our area with over 2 thousand students. Majority catholic but she is only one as is my son to not be baptised at all out of all their friends and from my experience in talking to parents but they have especially my daughter a very grouded faith.
I have spoken to them about history, scripture, prophecy and science. We have great philosophical discussions, it's not an unusual thing in our house and I value their ideas and thoughts. My son went through a time when he confessed unbelief and I respected that. It was hard and at times I posed some questions to him but I never vilified him. Never badgered him, I allowed him to sit in that belief because I never doubted.
Fear has no place in faith.
Fear makes us a little crazy, it makes us desperate and irrational.
I just had faith
Teenagers are delicate creatures often best left to their own angst. Pushy parenting I believe has more negatives than positives.
With the extremely hard couple of years he's been through he's come out the other side with a faith that is very personal but also very strong.
That may change again and that's okay, life's a journey
What has never changed is how proud I am of the way they treat others. By luck and/or good management I have a couple of really kind people. I am constantly blown away by their integrity and thoughtfulness.
I never cared if I had kids who were rocket scientists or mathematicians but I didn't want ar*eholes, cos' there's already enough of those