Animals Complex Emotions

[numeral2_5]

On godandscience.org it said some sort of scientist feels that animals can't experience guilt or jealousy.

My family has a dog, when he craps on the carpet we know he did because he holds his head down. Also recently when my sister had a child he would express contempt towards him at first and sometimes hold his head down in a similar fashion, I think because we were giving this child more attention.

Anyway It seems to me that the dog of ours had expressed the "uniquely human" emotions of guilt and jealousy.

[Mystical]

Nonsense. Of course they can feel guilt and jealousy. Why wouldn't they be able to?

You might enjoy this article (discounting the evolution silliness):

Animal Laughter

[numeral2_5]

Moral judgments
After Adam and Eve had sinned, they became like God in that they could distinguish good from evil.17 The ability to make moral judgments is also a characteristics that is found only in humans. Even the higher apes cannot make moral judgments about the behavior of other animals. As Dr. Jerome Kagan points out in Three Seductive Ideas, "Not even the cleverest ape could be conditioned to be angry upon seeing one animal steal food from another."18 In addition, there are no non-human animal models for human pride, shame, and guilt.19

on http://www.godandscience.org/evolution/imageofgod.html

No nonhuman models for pride, shame and guilt?

[Ark~Magic]

The reason the dog is acting that way after crapping is probably more for fear of punishment because he/she may know what brings punishment and what brings reward.

Animal 'laughter' doesn't really mean much (and BTW Mystical that source page sucks)

And what does the other thing have to do with jealousy? The dog just realized it wasn't getting attention. It seems more like it was sad for being ignored than 'jealousy'. Pfft.

[numeral2_5]

That is what is interesting, we don't punish him. we know it was an accident.

[Ark~Magic]

I don't know enough about the history of the dog or it's background to really comment on it much, much less the whole situation.

[numeral2_5]

Sad for being ignored is one of the components of jealousy.

[Ark~Magic]

The animal can feel sadness for isolation and not exactly feel "jealousy". And even if they do feel it, so what? Same with laughter.

[numeral2_5]

It shows that they are capable of emotions once thought uniquely human.

[Ark~Magic]

The guilt and jealousy thing is still in question, I wish I could find this book on that to help you understand what I'm trying to get across, but the point is still this:

What makes us human is this spiritual make up. It enables us to create art and music. If gives us the capacity and desire to worship and to love in a self sacrificing way. It provides us with the ability to feel guilt, sympathy, compassion, and to be able to put others first. It is this spiritual component that enables us to relate to God and to be able to be influenced by God. Looking to this higher power that works through our spiritual make up gives us the ability to overcome drugs, destructive sexual behaviors, alcohol, pride, greed, selfishness, and all the other things that bring misery to life.

Alot of the so-called 'monkey art' and 'elephant art' is an anthropomorphization, making something human that it isn't. These animals are just doing random strokes and splotches, but I've never known them to realize something telligable on their own unless taught.

I'll post some info from that book when I find it.

[numeral2_5]

I witnessed this dog of ours express these emotions and I don't think I "anthromorphised" them.

[Ark~Magic]

Again we don't know the history of the dog. Has it ever, in its lifetime, been disciplined for pooping in the wrong place? And how old is the dog?

[numeral2_5]

Nope we haven't punished him, he has the loose poops, I think he's four or five years old.

[Ark~Magic]

There are other reasons for which the dog could behave that way after doing that. Why do you assume this means he feels he is guilty?

[numeral2_5]

What other reason could there be?