So, if mankind never existed, 1+1 would not =2?Kenny wrote:The system of Arithmetic works whether someone is around to use it or not. But if mankind never existed, the system would not have been invented.PaulSacramento wrote:Kenny wrote:Yes.PaulSacramento wrote:So, 1+1 = 2 even if there was no one around to count or anything to count?Kenny wrote:
No, the wall is you confusing my disagreements, with me not knowing the difference between THAT something IS (Ontology) vs WHAT something is (Epistemology)
Ken
K
Really? because on the last thread we had this discussion you disagreed.
Something about math ( like forms and such) only existing because they were invented by man.
The meaning of immaterial life
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Re: The meaning of immaterial life
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
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Re: The meaning of immaterial life
So it isn't objective but subjective to man.Kenny wrote:The system of Arithmetic works whether someone is around to use it or not. But if mankind never existed, the system would not have been invented.PaulSacramento wrote:Kenny wrote:Yes.PaulSacramento wrote:So, 1+1 = 2 even if there was no one around to count or anything to count?Kenny wrote:
No, the wall is you confusing my disagreements, with me not knowing the difference between THAT something IS (Ontology) vs WHAT something is (Epistemology)
Ken
K
Really? because on the last thread we had this discussion you disagreed.
Something about math ( like forms and such) only existing because they were invented by man.
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Re: The meaning of immaterial life
How can something possibly work if it has not been invented?Kenny wrote:The system of Arithmetic works whether someone is around to use it or not. But if mankind never existed, the system would not have been invented.PaulSacramento wrote:Kenny wrote:Yes.PaulSacramento wrote:So, 1+1 = 2 even if there was no one around to count or anything to count?Kenny wrote:
No, the wall is you confusing my disagreements, with me not knowing the difference between THAT something IS (Ontology) vs WHAT something is (Epistemology)
Ken
K
Really? because on the last thread we had this discussion you disagreed.
Something about math ( like forms and such) only existing because they were invented by man.
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Re: The meaning of immaterial life
So If I strongly dislike my kid today, then their value to me temporarily decreases?Kenny wrote:Their value only temporarily decrease with me. Their value in the eyes of everyone else remains the same.Nessa wrote:Love is primarly a choice.Kenny wrote:Kenny wrote:So what do you mean when you say value? If it isn't how much you love the person or care about them, what does value mean?Nicki wrote:
I don't think it's as mathematically calculable as that.
So though you don't agree with capital punishment, you don't think the Bible condemn it. Fair enough; I can understand that position.Nicki wrote: Not every issue is addressed in black and white in the Bible, but based on the Old Testament I think it can be said that capital punishment is not necessarily wrong.An emotional feeling; yes.Nessa wrote: To you love is just a feeling, right?
What other way is there?Nessa wrote: How can you place value on a life just by a mere feeling?
Ken
What if you find yourself hating your spouse oneday but love them the next?
Does their value temporarily decrease?
Ken
Might as well base personal worth on the rolling of a dice or what way the wind blows
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Re: The meaning of immaterial life
If mankind never existed, the + and = signs would not exist.RickD wrote:So, if mankind never existed, 1+1 would not =2?Kenny wrote:The system of Arithmetic works whether someone is around to use it or not. But if mankind never existed, the system would not have been invented.PaulSacramento wrote:Kenny wrote:Yes.PaulSacramento wrote: So, 1+1 = 2 even if there was no one around to count or anything to count?
K
Really? because on the last thread we had this discussion you disagreed.
Something about math ( like forms and such) only existing because they were invented by man.
If mankind never existed, the numbers 1 and 2 would not exist.
RickD wrote
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".
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Re: The meaning of immaterial life
No. Just because people invent something doesn’t make that thing subjective to the person who invented it. Mankind invented the system of math, and the way he invented it was so that the rules of math were objective.PaulSacramento wrote:So it isn't objective but subjective to man.Kenny wrote:The system of Arithmetic works whether someone is around to use it or not. But if mankind never existed, the system would not have been invented.PaulSacramento wrote:Kenny wrote:Yes.PaulSacramento wrote: So, 1+1 = 2 even if there was no one around to count or anything to count?
K
Really? because on the last thread we had this discussion you disagreed.
Something about math ( like forms and such) only existing because they were invented by man.
RickD wrote
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".
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Re: The meaning of immaterial life
Kenny wrote:If mankind never existed, the + and = signs would not exist.RickD wrote:So, if mankind never existed, 1+1 would not =2?Kenny wrote:The system of Arithmetic works whether someone is around to use it or not. But if mankind never existed, the system would not have been invented.PaulSacramento wrote:Kenny wrote: Yes.
K
Really? because on the last thread we had this discussion you disagreed.
Something about math ( like forms and such) only existing because they were invented by man.
If mankind never existed, the numbers 1 and 2 would not exist.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
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Re: The meaning of immaterial life
Not what I said. Once the system has been invented, it will work whether someone is around to use it or not. But if mankind never existed, the system would have never been invented.Nessa wrote:How can something possibly work if it has not been invented?Kenny wrote:The system of Arithmetic works whether someone is around to use it or not. But if mankind never existed, the system would not have been invented.PaulSacramento wrote:Kenny wrote:Yes.PaulSacramento wrote: So, 1+1 = 2 even if there was no one around to count or anything to count?
K
Really? because on the last thread we had this discussion you disagreed.
Something about math ( like forms and such) only existing because they were invented by man.
Sorta like asking if the combustion engine would work if there were nobody around to use it. The idea of using carefully timed explosions connected to a crankshaft to propel a machine foreword will work whether people are around or not. If mankind never existed, that idea would not have been invented in the first place.
Last edited by Kenny on Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
RickD wrote
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".
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Re: The meaning of immaterial life
Can’t say how things work for you, but for me I don’t love my loved ones one minute, hate them the next, then go back to loving them later; it doesn't work for me that way. I may be angry at them one moment then happy the next, but when I am angry, I don’t hate them I still love them thus their value to me remains the same. How about you? Do you only love and value others because God instructs you to? Or are you capable of finding value in others on your own?Nessa wrote:So If I strongly dislike my kid today, then their value to me temporarily decreases?Kenny wrote:Their value only temporarily decrease with me. Their value in the eyes of everyone else remains the same.Nessa wrote:Love is primarly a choice.Kenny wrote:Kenny wrote: So what do you mean when you say value? If it isn't how much you love the person or care about them, what does value mean?
So though you don't agree with capital punishment, you don't think the Bible condemn it. Fair enough; I can understand that position.An emotional feeling; yes.Nessa wrote: To you love is just a feeling, right?
What other way is there?Nessa wrote: How can you place value on a life just by a mere feeling?
Ken
What if you find yourself hating your spouse oneday but love them the next?
Does their value temporarily decrease?
Ken
Ken
RickD wrote
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".
- Nessa
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Re: The meaning of immaterial life
We are talking about feelings alone. No one can have feelings of love constantly for another all the time, in my opinion. We are human and humans always fall short. Not all the time though and some more than others.Kenny wrote:Can’t say how things work for you, but for me I don’t love my loved ones one minute, hate them the next, then go back to loving them later; it doesn't work for me that way. I may be angry at them one moment then happy the next, but when I am angry, I don’t hate them I still love them thus their value to me remains the same. How about you? Do you only love and value others because God instructs you to? Or are you capable of finding value in others on your own?Nessa wrote:So If I strongly dislike my kid today, then their value to me temporarily decreases?Kenny wrote:Their value only temporarily decrease with me. Their value in the eyes of everyone else remains the same.Nessa wrote:Love is primarly a choice.Kenny wrote:
An emotional feeling; yes.
What other way is there?
Ken
What if you find yourself hating your spouse oneday but love them the next?
Does their value temporarily decrease?
Ken
Ken
I can find value in people on my own but it's subjective and like basing an opinion on shifting sands depending on how I feel that day. WHY do you think the divorce rate is so high? Sometimes because people fall out of love and don't necessarily care to find their way back
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Re: The meaning of immaterial life
How does an idea exist without someone first thinking it?Kenny wrote:Not what I said. Once the system has been invented, it will work whether someone is around to use it or not. But if mankind never existed, the system would have never been invented.Nessa wrote:How can something possibly work if it has not been invented?Kenny wrote:The system of Arithmetic works whether someone is around to use it or not. But if mankind never existed, the system would not have been invented.PaulSacramento wrote:Kenny wrote: Yes.
K
Really? because on the last thread we had this discussion you disagreed.
Something about math ( like forms and such) only existing because they were invented by man.
Sorta like asking if the combustion engine would work if there were nobody around to use it. The idea of using carefully timed explosions connected to a crankshaft to propel a machine foreword will work whether people are around or not. If mankind never existed, that idea would not have been invented in the first place.
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Re: The meaning of immaterial life
Kenny wrote:Can’t say how things work for you, but for me I don’t love my loved ones one minute, hate them the next, then go back to loving them later; it doesn't work for me that way. I may be angry at them one moment then happy the next, but when I am angry, I don’t hate them I still love them thus their value to me remains the same. How about you? Do you only love and value others because God instructs you to? Or are you capable of finding value in others on your own?Nessa wrote:So If I strongly dislike my kid today, then their value to me temporarily decreases?Kenny wrote:Their value only temporarily decrease with me. Their value in the eyes of everyone else remains the same.Nessa wrote:
Love is primarly a choice.
What if you find yourself hating your spouse oneday but love them the next?
Does their value temporarily decrease?
Ken
Ken
Are you confusing the feeling of love for someone with the feeling of happiness with them, and the feeling of hatred towards someone with being angry at them?Nessa wrote: We are talking about feelings alone. No one can have feelings of love constantly for another all the time, in my opinion. We are human and humans always fall short. Not all the time though and some more than others.
So is it fair to say the only reason you value and love some people is because God tells you to?Nessa wrote: I can find value in people on my own but it's subjective and like basing an opinion on shifting sands depending on how I feel that day. WHY do you think the divorce rate is so high? Sometimes because people fall out of love and don't necessarily care to find their way back
RickD wrote
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".
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Re: The meaning of immaterial life
It can't. thats the point I was making.Nessa wrote:How does an idea exist without someone first thinking it?Kenny wrote:Not what I said. Once the system has been invented, it will work whether someone is around to use it or not. But if mankind never existed, the system would have never been invented.Nessa wrote:How can something possibly work if it has not been invented?Kenny wrote:The system of Arithmetic works whether someone is around to use it or not. But if mankind never existed, the system would not have been invented.PaulSacramento wrote:
Really? because on the last thread we had this discussion you disagreed.
Something about math ( like forms and such) only existing because they were invented by man.
Sorta like asking if the combustion engine would work if there were nobody around to use it. The idea of using carefully timed explosions connected to a crankshaft to propel a machine foreword will work whether people are around or not. If mankind never existed, that idea would not have been invented in the first place.
RickD wrote
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".
- Nessa
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Re: The meaning of immaterial life
Ultimately love is a choice I make. Which is grounded on substance and not just whimsKenny wrote:Kenny wrote:Can’t say how things work for you, but for me I don’t love my loved ones one minute, hate them the next, then go back to loving them later; it doesn't work for me that way. I may be angry at them one moment then happy the next, but when I am angry, I don’t hate them I still love them thus their value to me remains the same. How about you? Do you only love and value others because God instructs you to? Or are you capable of finding value in others on your own?Nessa wrote:So If I strongly dislike my kid today, then their value to me temporarily decreases?Kenny wrote:Their value only temporarily decrease with me. Their value in the eyes of everyone else remains the same.Nessa wrote:
Love is primarly a choice.
What if you find yourself hating your spouse oneday but love them the next?
Does their value temporarily decrease?
Ken
KenAre you confusing the feeling of love for someone with the feeling of happiness with them, and the feeling of hatred towards someone with being angry at them?Nessa wrote: We are talking about feelings alone. No one can have feelings of love constantly for another all the time, in my opinion. We are human and humans always fall short. Not all the time though and some more than others.
So is it fair to say the only reason you value and love some people is because God tells you to?Nessa wrote: I can find value in people on my own but it's subjective and like basing an opinion on shifting sands depending on how I feel that day. WHY do you think the divorce rate is so high? Sometimes because people fall out of love and don't necessarily care to find their way back
Are you confusing the knowledge of love as being the same as a feeling?
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Re: The meaning of immaterial life
Kenny wrote:Kenny wrote:Can’t say how things work for you, but for me I don’t love my loved ones one minute, hate them the next, then go back to loving them later; it doesn't work for me that way. I may be angry at them one moment then happy the next, but when I am angry, I don’t hate them I still love them thus their value to me remains the same. How about you? Do you only love and value others because God instructs you to? Or are you capable of finding value in others on your own?Nessa wrote:So If I strongly dislike my kid today, then their value to me temporarily decreases?Kenny wrote: Their value only temporarily decrease with me. Their value in the eyes of everyone else remains the same.
Ken
KenAre you confusing the feeling of love for someone with the feeling of happiness with them, and the feeling of hatred towards someone with being angry at them?Nessa wrote: We are talking about feelings alone. No one can have feelings of love constantly for another all the time, in my opinion. We are human and humans always fall short. Not all the time though and some more than others.
So is it fair to say the only reason you value and love some people is because God tells you to?Nessa wrote: I can find value in people on my own but it's subjective and like basing an opinion on shifting sands depending on how I feel that day. WHY do you think the divorce rate is so high? Sometimes because people fall out of love and don't necessarily care to find their way back
Feelings aren't based on whims; at least for me they are not.Nessa wrote: Ultimately love is a choice I make. Which is grounded on substance and not just whims
I've never heard of love described as a knowledge. Please explain.Nessa wrote: Are you confusing the knowledge of love as being the same as a feeling?
K
RickD wrote
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".