Noah's Flood: when did it occur?

[Jasonf8676]

Here is my current theory about when Noah's Flood might have occurred. I determined a rough date based on archaeological and agricultural evidences (or lack thereof) between 10,000 and 23,000 years ago, with references to the curse God put on the ground after Adam's sin (and the lifting of the curse on the ground after the Flood):

https://oldearthcreationism.wordpress.c ... d-it-occur

[thatkidakayoungguy]

I haven't yet read the document, but I too once figured at about 29000 years ago, because Neanderthals were gone for sure (at least the pure blood ones) by then.
Now I think it had to be at least 300,000 years ago. Sounds weird but I have my reasons.

[Jasonf8676]

Why 300,000 years ago? I'm interested in how you came to that conclusion.

[B. W.]

The Evidence for God from Science website is 'Old Earth Creationist' and we do welcome YEC's and GAP as well. People can freely discuss their viewpoints but please do so with respect.

There are some of who are Older than most here so we do make up Old Earth Creationist as Rick D would say, "for sure man, groovy," as he drives driving his truck wearing his tye-dye tee and bell bottom faded jeans.
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[RickD]

I used to be a young earth creationist. But now I'm old.

[Jasonf8676]

I used to be a YEC, too, until the mid-2000's.

[RickD]

I used to be a YEC, too, until the mid-2000's.

I think I finally left the YEC "cult" around 2009.

[Jasonf8676]

What books or writers inspired you to become an OEC?

[DBowling]

Since Noah's Flood (as described in Scripture) occurs at the same time and location as the Sumerian deluge described in Mesopotamian literature, I am convinced that the Scriptural account of Noah's Flood and the Sumerian deluge legend are basically referring to the same historical event. (even if the descriptions are not identical).

ExtraScriptural Sumerian literature confirms the Scriptural time and location for Noah's Flood, as occurring in Mesopotamia around 3000 BC.

Genesis 4 (which occurs BEFORE Noah's Flood) describes behavior that took place during the Neolithic Revolution in Mesopotamia, so I don't think a pre Neolithic Revolution date for the Flood is even viable from a Scriptural perspective.

So since internal Scriptural evidence and external extraScriptural evidence from Sumerian history both point to around 3000 BC...
Then I go with sometime around 3000 BC.

[thatkidakayoungguy]

Why 300,000 years ago? I'm interested in how you came to that conclusion.

The evidence that the modern races came and started spreading around 50-90K, our subspecies started at about 200K, and the fact that the Neanderthal and Denisovan subspecies mixed with some of our races would indicate they're human, imo. They both came around at least 3-400K years ago. Actually, I wouldn't say 300K is when the flood happened (which was a supernatural event, so we don't need evidence from fossils and rocks), but just sometime in the distant past.
Also, it wouldn't surprise me if there has been different civilizations that have been lost-as Genesis and other ancient stories say- complete with cities and farming, such as Enoch and Babel. I mean, Neanderthals had the intelligence of early modern humans, it's possible they farmed, though highly unlikely due to the climate most of them lived in, for example.
So, ultimately, I let science teach what it teaches and Scripture teach what it teaches.
There are many ways to get around the two.

[thatkidakayoungguy]

Since Noah's Flood (as described in Scripture) occurs at the same time and location as the Sumerian deluge described in Mesopotamian literature, I am convinced that the Scriptural account of Noah's Flood and the Sumerian deluge legend are basically referring to the same historical event. (even if the descriptions are not identical).

ExtraScriptural Sumerian literature confirms the Scriptural time and location for Noah's Flood, as occurring in Mesopotamia around 3000 BC.

Genesis 4 (which occurs BEFORE Noah's Flood) describes behavior that took place during the Neolithic Revolution in Mesopotamia, so I don't think a pre Neolithic Revolution date for the Flood is even viable from a Scriptural perspective.

So since internal Scriptural evidence and external extraScriptural evidence from Sumerian history both point to around 3000 BC...
Then I go with sometime around 3000 BC.

There's evidence people farmed much before then...https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 144709.htm
there's a book out somewhere that speculates if farming had been done 40,000 years ago, with apparently evidence to support it.

[DBowling]

Since Noah's Flood (as described in Scripture) occurs at the same time and location as the Sumerian deluge described in Mesopotamian literature, I am convinced that the Scriptural account of Noah's Flood and the Sumerian deluge legend are basically referring to the same historical event. (even if the descriptions are not identical).

ExtraScriptural Sumerian literature confirms the Scriptural time and location for Noah's Flood, as occurring in Mesopotamia around 3000 BC.

Genesis 4 (which occurs BEFORE Noah's Flood) describes behavior that took place during the Neolithic Revolution in Mesopotamia, so I don't think a pre Neolithic Revolution date for the Flood is even viable from a Scriptural perspective.

So since internal Scriptural evidence and external extraScriptural evidence from Sumerian history both point to around 3000 BC...
Then I go with sometime around 3000 BC.

There's evidence people farmed much before then...https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 144709.htm
there's a book out somewhere that speculates if farming had been done 40,000 years ago, with apparently evidence to support it.

Even if that is the case, how is that relevant to the timing of Noah's Flood?

Take a quick read through Genesis 4 again.
Do you believe that there is evidence to support the premise that ALL the behavior described in Genesis 4 took place before Mesopotamian Neolithic Revolution?

[thatkidakayoungguy]

Since Noah's Flood (as described in Scripture) occurs at the same time and location as the Sumerian deluge described in Mesopotamian literature, I am convinced that the Scriptural account of Noah's Flood and the Sumerian deluge legend are basically referring to the same historical event. (even if the descriptions are not identical).

ExtraScriptural Sumerian literature confirms the Scriptural time and location for Noah's Flood, as occurring in Mesopotamia around 3000 BC.

Genesis 4 (which occurs BEFORE Noah's Flood) describes behavior that took place during the Neolithic Revolution in Mesopotamia, so I don't think a pre Neolithic Revolution date for the Flood is even viable from a Scriptural perspective.

So since internal Scriptural evidence and external extraScriptural evidence from Sumerian history both point to around 3000 BC...
Then I go with sometime around 3000 BC.

There's evidence people farmed much before then...https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 144709.htm
there's a book out somewhere that speculates if farming had been done 40,000 years ago, with apparently evidence to support it.

Even if that is the case, how is that relevant to the timing of Noah's Flood?

Take a quick read through Genesis 4 again.
Do you believe that there is evidence to support the premise that ALL the behavior described in Genesis 4 took place before Mesopotamian Neolithic Revolution?

No, not yet. But enough of it is there to support the premise. The main thing that throws it off is that Tubal Cain is the first to work with Bronze and Iron, though I figured he was just some dude way ahead of his time.

[DBowling]

Since Noah's Flood (as described in Scripture) occurs at the same time and location as the Sumerian deluge described in Mesopotamian literature, I am convinced that the Scriptural account of Noah's Flood and the Sumerian deluge legend are basically referring to the same historical event. (even if the descriptions are not identical).

ExtraScriptural Sumerian literature confirms the Scriptural time and location for Noah's Flood, as occurring in Mesopotamia around 3000 BC.

Genesis 4 (which occurs BEFORE Noah's Flood) describes behavior that took place during the Neolithic Revolution in Mesopotamia, so I don't think a pre Neolithic Revolution date for the Flood is even viable from a Scriptural perspective.

So since internal Scriptural evidence and external extraScriptural evidence from Sumerian history both point to around 3000 BC...
Then I go with sometime around 3000 BC.

There's evidence people farmed much before then...https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 144709.htm
there's a book out somewhere that speculates if farming had been done 40,000 years ago, with apparently evidence to support it.

Even if that is the case, how is that relevant to the timing of Noah's Flood?

Take a quick read through Genesis 4 again.
Do you believe that there is evidence to support the premise that ALL the behavior described in Genesis 4 took place before Mesopotamian Neolithic Revolution?

No, not yet. But enough of it is there to support the premise. The main thing that throws it off is that Tubal Cain is the first to work with Bronze and Iron, though I figured he was just some dude way ahead of his time.

How about Cain building a city?
Is there any evidence of any cities in Mesopotamia prior to 5000 BC?
A study of Genesis 4 and human cultural development in the Levant convinced me that it is Scripturally impossible for Noah to predate the Neolithic Revolution...
... and extremely unlikely that Adam and Eve predated the Neolithic Revolution as well, since Cain built a city in Mesopotamia and the first Mesopotamian cities were built in the 4000 BC to 5000 BC time frame.

[Philip]

DB: Since Noah's Flood (as described in Scripture) occurs at the same time and location as the Sumerian deluge described in Mesopotamian literature, I am convinced that the Scriptural account of Noah's Flood and the Sumerian deluge legend are basically referring to the same historical event. (even if the descriptions are not identical).

ExtraScriptural Sumerian literature confirms the Scriptural time and location for Noah's Flood, as occurring in Mesopotamia around 3000 BC.

Genesis 4 (which occurs BEFORE Noah's Flood) describes behavior that took place during the Neolithic Revolution in Mesopotamia, so I don't think a pre Neolithic Revolution date for the Flood is even viable from a Scriptural perspective.

So since internal Scriptural evidence and external extraScriptural evidence from Sumerian history both point to around 3000 BC... Then I go with sometime around 3000 BC.

OK, 3000-3500 BC. Note that AnswersinGenesis states 2400 BC. So then, how long a period do you think is between Adam's creation and the flood? Some, using Scripture, would say there were approximately 2,256 years between Adam's creation and the flood - so now, that would indicated about 5,756 years from Adam's creation to the flood - and yes, that's not to say that there aren't generations following Adam missing in that calculation. Add in 5,756 + 2,018 = 7,774 years since Adam's creation. Even if one doubled the genealogical time references in Genesis, you're still at an age of only about 15,548 years since Adam's creation. And yet, one of the oldest known cultural settlements are of the Natufian culture (founders of Jericho, escavated in the Judaean hills during the 1930s, to be as old as 12,500 years, and yet, the North African Levant peoples have been estimated to have existed 23,000 years ago. So, what are we to make of evidences showing civilizations FAR past the apparent time range of Adam, given the various estimates? Can the generations of Adam noted be THAT far off?

Course, DB and I have entertained the notion that maybe Gods line (Adam to Christ) was initially independent of greater mankind, which might have been created first - I sincerely don't know if that's true or not. But, at least Biblically, from what can be shown with certainty (per the dates), there's an apparently significant gap between detectable ancient civilizations and what we can know from Scripture. Although, there STILL might be a way that ALL men came from Adam and Eve. One question would be, what Scriptural evidence refutes any other possibility (like greater mankind being create first)?