Revelation: 11
"1": And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and MEASURE THE TEMPLE OF GOD, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
It is in scripture. Measure the temple of god.
How come everytime someone tries to measure the temple of god, the church says, Thou shalt Not measure this temple!
Tell me--what is Christ's words worth if they cannot be measured against church doctrine. And tell me (think long and hard)--does the church come in the name of christ, to do the will of god or to do its own?
If thou knowest it all declare it unto me.
The sheep, the lamb, is an image of the church. A representation of the followers of christ. Agree?
Only when it is convenient. Let me show you such an image (denied by the church); a reflection according to prophecy:
Daniel: 8
"1": In the third year of the reign of king Belshazzar a vision appeared unto me, even unto me Daniel, after that which appeared unto me at the first.
"2": And I saw in a vision; and it came to pass, when I saw, that I was at Shushan in the palace, which is in the province of Elam; and I saw in a vision, and I was by the river of Ulai.
"3": Then I lifted up mine eyes, and saw, and, behold, there stood before the river a ram which had two horns: and the two horns were high; but one was higher than the other, and the higher came up last.
"4": I saw the RAM(SHEEP) pushing westward, and northward, and southward; so that no beasts might stand before him, neither was there any that could deliver out of his hand; but he did according to his will, and became great.
"5": And as I was considering, behold, an he goat came from the west on the face of the whole earth, and touched not the ground: and the goat had a notable horn between his eyes.
"6": And he came to the ram that had two horns, which I had there seen standing before the river, and ran unto him in the fury of his power.
"7": And I saw him come close unto the ram, and he was moved with choler against him, and smote the ram, and brake his two horns: and there was no power in the ram to stand before him, but he cast him down to the ground, and stamped upon him: and there was none that could deliver the ram out of his hand.
"8": Therefore the he goat waxed very great: and when he was strong, the great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven.
"9": And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.
"10": And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them.
"11": Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.
"12": And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.
note: a ram is a sheep.
Yes. I know. The church sees not its reflection in the mirror, out of convenience.
Yet, if you refer to genesis; where cain slew able. Remember, Able was a keeper of sheep. That holds relevance to the church, correct?
Of course, out of convenience because the church does not want to see any impurities within its reflection.
Do not judge and you will not be judged. Yet, the church judges all the time.
It doesn't?
Speak to me of morality. Got any judgements on homosexual marriage or drug use?
Man creates his own sins. It was not enough for man to have all his old sins, he had to create new ones; therefore, those with power (and all power is corruptible)condemned those that had not. Now, it is even a sin to cheat on your taxes. It is even a sin not to capitalize the word god or lord.
(Those things you hate do not do).
That is why when man speaks of god, he only speaks of the portion he knows; and Hates! that which is added or taken away from his portion. Therefore, man has closed is own eyes and ears, on his own accord.
Luke: 19
"26": For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him.
And what is the fear of god? Tell me--if god is love (perfect love) then what god would replace love with fear. What perfect love strikes fear?
I tell you. It was man who put the fear of god into man out of his own insecurities, his own blemishes, his own impurities, his own guilt.
And god came because he wanted to be loved?
No, christ came because man wanted to be loved.
The parable of the sheep and goat
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Species_8472
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Species_8472
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Matthew: 13
"44": Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field.
"45": Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls:
"46": Who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had, and bought it.
"47": Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind:
"48": Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away.
"49": So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
"50": And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
"51": Jesus saith unto them, Have ye understood all these things? They say unto him, Yea, Lord.
"52": Then said he unto them, Therefore every scribe which is instructed unto the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which bringeth forth out of his treasure things new and old.
"44": Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field.
"45": Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls:
"46": Who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had, and bought it.
"47": Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind:
"48": Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away.
"49": So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
"50": And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
"51": Jesus saith unto them, Have ye understood all these things? They say unto him, Yea, Lord.
"52": Then said he unto them, Therefore every scribe which is instructed unto the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which bringeth forth out of his treasure things new and old.
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B. W.
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From the CEV: Ecclesiastes 3:11 "God makes everything happen at the right time. Yet none of us can ever fully understand all he has done, and he puts questions in our minds about the past and the future."Species_8472 wrote:Matthew: 13
"44": Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field.
"45": Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls:
"46": Who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had, and bought it.
"47": Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind:
"48": Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away.
"49": So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
"50": And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
"51": Jesus saith unto them, Have ye understood all these things? They say unto him, Yea, Lord.
"52": Then said he unto them, Therefore every scribe which is instructed unto the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which bringeth forth out of his treasure things new and old.
Yes - God wants us to search, seek, and find!!
Amen!!
Telling someone that what they are doing is wrong and recognizing a wrong as such is not judgement. Determining that a person is their sin is a judgement. Not forgiving someone for their sin is a judgement. Not helping someone out of sin is a judgement.Do not judge and you will not be judged. Yet, the church judges all the time.
It doesn't?
Speak to me of morality. Got any judgements on homosexual morality and drug use?
Stating that homosexuality and drug use are wrong are not judgements--it is the truth.
Not really. We choose to partake in sin that exists independent of us. Wrong is wrong, not only because an individual chooses to call it so. Each person is vulnerable to different sins, but sin is sin, regardless if it is a weakness for you or not. For example: I can choose to drink and might safely be able to do this without getting drunk or becoming an alcoholic. Bob might not be able to look at alcohol without getting drunk or becoming an alcoholic. Being an alcoholic is a sin for both of us.Man creates his own sins.
No, God/Christ came because we needed to be saved.And god came because he wanted to be loved? No, christ came because man wanted to be loved.
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Species_8472
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If you want to dance with the serpent then lets dance...
Tell me. Drug use is wrong?
"29": And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
God says every herb bearing seed. Guess what kind of herb bears seed?
Marijuana.
Jesus said, it is not what goes into your body that defiles you. It is what comes out of your mouth.[/b]
Tell me. Drug use is wrong?
"29": And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
God says every herb bearing seed. Guess what kind of herb bears seed?
Marijuana.
Jesus said, it is not what goes into your body that defiles you. It is what comes out of your mouth.[/b]
I would say that it is drug abuse that is the sin. Alcohol is a drug but Jesus first miracle was to turn water into alcohol (vino). So drug use itself is not the sin to me. Morphine and even cocaine are used in medicine but that is responsible non-abuse and non-sinful use.
That being said, while substances such as marijuana are questionable in whether they do damage -- it has far less toxicity than alcohol -- we (at least those in the US, like me) live in a society where its use is illegal. We have to abide by our society's rules. Other cultures and other societies do not have this criminalization mindset and I don't know that I would consider moderate use of such substance as "sin" in those societies.
That being said, while substances such as marijuana are questionable in whether they do damage -- it has far less toxicity than alcohol -- we (at least those in the US, like me) live in a society where its use is illegal. We have to abide by our society's rules. Other cultures and other societies do not have this criminalization mindset and I don't know that I would consider moderate use of such substance as "sin" in those societies.
If you want to dance with the serpent then let's dance...
Cute. Do you look like a snake? or just feel like one?I already told you, but I will tell you again: drug use is wrong. The main point of a drug is to take a natural form of a chemical/plant and concentrate its properties to achieve heightened emotional/physiological states which are unnatural and almost always harmful. Cocoa, for example, in its natural state is not wrong (marijuana as well). But, when used as a drug it is used for wrong/unnatural purposes and not in its intended state. Wrong/evil is a perversion of something right and good. Drugs are a perversion of God's gifts, so they are wrong.Tell me. Drug use is wrong?
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Species_8472
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Ignorance is bliss. I am ignorant. You are?
Thank you for admitting it.
"I will give you what no eye has seen, what no ear has heard, what no hand has touched, what has not arisen in the human heart."
Jesus said to them, "When you make the two into one, and when you make the inner like the outer and the outer like the inner, and the upper like the lower, and when you make male and female into a single one, so that the male will not be male nor the female be female, when you make eyes in place of an eye, a hand in place of a hand, a foot in place of a foot, an image in place of an image, then you will enter [the kingdom]."
when you make the male and female into a single one, so that the male will not be male nor the female be female?
Now, looking at homosexual marriage-we can see the bias of the church; for they see not that male and female are one and the same...
note: according to a query I made, I have found that this parable has been snipped out of the bible.
Jesus said, "The Pharisees and the scholars have taken the keys of knowledge and have hidden them. They have not entered nor have they allowed those who want to enter to do so.
Jesus said, "Damn the Pharisees! They are like a dog sleeping in the cattle manger: the dog neither eats nor [lets] the cattle eat."
(I was lucky to find what was taken away in the gospel of thomas)
Thank you for admitting it.
"I will give you what no eye has seen, what no ear has heard, what no hand has touched, what has not arisen in the human heart."
Jesus said to them, "When you make the two into one, and when you make the inner like the outer and the outer like the inner, and the upper like the lower, and when you make male and female into a single one, so that the male will not be male nor the female be female, when you make eyes in place of an eye, a hand in place of a hand, a foot in place of a foot, an image in place of an image, then you will enter [the kingdom]."
when you make the male and female into a single one, so that the male will not be male nor the female be female?
Now, looking at homosexual marriage-we can see the bias of the church; for they see not that male and female are one and the same...
note: according to a query I made, I have found that this parable has been snipped out of the bible.
Jesus said, "The Pharisees and the scholars have taken the keys of knowledge and have hidden them. They have not entered nor have they allowed those who want to enter to do so.
Jesus said, "Damn the Pharisees! They are like a dog sleeping in the cattle manger: the dog neither eats nor [lets] the cattle eat."
(I was lucky to find what was taken away in the gospel of thomas)
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Species_8472
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To Be Dead
Destroy the corpse and release my mind
The secrets contemplate the other side
It won't be long until the death of me
A spirit conscious of reality
To be dead is to always be
Close my eyes and return to sand
To be dead is to always dream
Coherent thought but unseen by man
Invisible to human sight
The consequences in his afterlife
Across the line from the ignorant
Inside my mind I do not know sin
To be dead is to always be
Open-eyed in a sleeping mind
To be dead is to always dream
I'm prepared for my turn to die
Inflicting sorrow on the enemy
And to everyone who doubted me
My constant presence will torment the soul
As I stand watching in the other world
To be dead is to always be
Untied from the living flesh
To be dead is to always dream
Unforgiven when I meet with death
Destroy the corpse and release my mind
The secrets contemplate the other side
It won't be long until the death of me
A spirit conscious of reality
To be dead is to always be
Close my eyes and return to sand
To be dead is to always dream
Coherent thought but unseen by man
Invisible to human sight
The consequences in his afterlife
Across the line from the ignorant
Inside my mind I do not know sin
To be dead is to always be
Open-eyed in a sleeping mind
To be dead is to always dream
I'm prepared for my turn to die
Inflicting sorrow on the enemy
And to everyone who doubted me
My constant presence will torment the soul
As I stand watching in the other world
To be dead is to always be
Untied from the living flesh
To be dead is to always dream
Unforgiven when I meet with death