Mark 4:10-12

[Christian2]

"And as soon as He was alone, His followers, along with the twelve, began asking Him about the parables. 11 And He was saying to them, “To you has been given the mystery of the kingdom of God; but those who are outside get everything in parables, 12 in order that while seeing, they may see and not perceive; and while hearing, they may hear and not understand lest they return and be forgiven," (Mark 4:10-12).

Jesus is quoting Isaiah 6:

9 And He replied:

Go! Say to these people:
Keep listening, but do not understand;
keep looking, but do not perceive.
10 Dull the minds[d] of these people;
deafen their ears and blind their eyes;
otherwise they might see with their eyes
and hear with their ears,
understand with their minds,
turn back, and be healed.

Mark 4 makes it seem like Jesus did not want everyone to be saved, but surely that it not the case.

What's going on here?

Thank you.

[PaulSacramento]

Look at the WHOLE of Chapter 4.
This is about people that WANT to believe, that WANT to know and people like that will persue the truth, the real truth and not "their truth".
See here:

13 And he said to them, “Do you not understand this parable? How then will you understand all the parables? 14 The sower sows the word. 15 And these are the ones along the path, where the word is sown: when they hear, Satan immediately comes and takes away the word that is sown in them. 16 And these are the ones sown on rocky ground: the ones who, when they hear the word, immediately receive it with joy. 17 And they have no root in themselves, but endure for a while; then, when tribulation or persecution arises on account of the word, immediately they fall away.[a] 18 And others are the ones sown among thorns. They are those who hear the word, 19 but the cares of the world and the deceitfulness of riches and the desires for other things enter in and choke the word, and it proves unfruitful. 20 But those that were sown on the good soil are the ones who hear the word and accept it and bear fruit, thirtyfold and sixtyfold and a hundredfold.”

Jesus make sit clear that the truth, that THE WORD ( Him), is given to all and that some will not want to hear it, so will but when tested will fall away and others will accept and preach His Word.

[Philip]

Well, we know that Jesus was not desiring that people not be able to understand their need for faith in God / faith in Him. We also know that Jesus does not want to prevent people from coming to faith in God - THE great emphasis of all of Scripture.

Who, inclusively, does God wish to save?

1 Timothy 2: 3-6: "This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, who desires ALL people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for ALL, which is the testimony given at the proper time."

Does God want ANYONE to miss eternity with Him?

And 2 Peter 3:9: "The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that ANY should perish, but that ALL should reach repentance."

What does God ultimately want of those determined to not believe?

Ezekiel 18:23: "Have I any pleasure in the death of the wicked, declares the Lord God, and not rather that he should turn from his way and live?"

Jesus began His ministry speaking quite directly. Across the region He had wide attention because of the miraculous healings and the amazing authority by which He spoke. So those who truly wanted to know God were listening and wanted to know more. Those who didn't want to truly believe, found ways not to. So speaking in parables, those paying attention and desiring to know God were understanding He was speaking spiritually and they were getting it - right alongside of those whose hearts and minds were closed to the point that they could not understand - so their lack of understanding was self-inflicted, per their hard and selfish hearts.

[Christian2]

Thanks for the excellent responses.

[Blessed]

13 And he said to them, “Do you not understand this parable? How then will you understand all the parables? 14 The sower sows the word. 15 And these are the ones along the path, where the word is sown: when they hear, Satan immediately comes and takes away the word that is sown in them. 16 And these are the ones sown on rocky ground: the ones who, when they hear the word, immediately receive it with joy. 17 And they have no root in themselves, but endure for a while; then, when tribulation or persecution arises on account of the word, immediately they fall away.[a] 18 And others are the ones sown among thorns. They are those who hear the word, 19 but the cares of the world and the deceitfulness of riches and the desires for other things enter in and choke the word, and it proves unfruitful. 20 But those that were sown on the good soil are the ones who hear the word and accept it and bear fruit, thirtyfold and sixtyfold and a hundredfold.”

[/quote]

I don't understand why he will condemn us for falling away under persecution or the "cares of this world" (money which buys food, clothing,transportation, shelter, medical, wife, kids, loans, stress relief, survival and whatever else we are compelled to do etc.) that come with the territory. Thorns come with the territory.

What is the "good soil" and who controls who gets sown on the "good soil"?

[PaulSacramento]

13 And he said to them, “Do you not understand this parable? How then will you understand all the parables? 14 The sower sows the word. 15 And these are the ones along the path, where the word is sown: when they hear, Satan immediately comes and takes away the word that is sown in them. 16 And these are the ones sown on rocky ground: the ones who, when they hear the word, immediately receive it with joy. 17 And they have no root in themselves, but endure for a while; then, when tribulation or persecution arises on account of the word, immediately they fall away.[a] 18 And others are the ones sown among thorns. They are those who hear the word, 19 but the cares of the world and the deceitfulness of riches and the desires for other things enter in and choke the word, and it proves unfruitful. 20 But those that were sown on the good soil are the ones who hear the word and accept it and bear fruit, thirtyfold and sixtyfold and a hundredfold.”

I don't understand why he will condemn us for falling away under persecution or the "cares of this world" (money which buys food, clothing,transportation, shelter, medical, wife, kids, loans, stress relief, survival and whatever else we are compelled to do etc.) that come with the territory. Thorns come with the territory.

What is the "good soil" and who controls who gets sown on the "good soil"?[/quote]

There are always layers in Christ's teaching.
Good soil can be the correct teachings passed on by believer to other believers.
If you don't understand why God would condemn those that fall away when bad things happen, can you understand those that do NOT fall away when bad things happen? should both parties be treated the same?

[thatkidakayoungguy]

At least with those who fall away quickly can still repent. Which reminds me on how to forgive others, like God forgives us.

[Blessed]

There are always layers in Christ's teaching.
Good soil can be the correct teachings passed on by believer to other believers.
If you don't understand why God would condemn those that fall away when bad things happen, can you understand those that do NOT fall away when bad things happen? should both parties be treated the same?

Can I understand a man who bench presses 1000 kg and wins an Olympic gold medal ? I understand he can do it. Yes.

[RickD]

There are always layers in Christ's teaching.
Good soil can be the correct teachings passed on by believer to other believers.
If you don't understand why God would condemn those that fall away when bad things happen, can you understand those that do NOT fall away when bad things happen? should both parties be treated the same?

Can I understand a man who bench presses 1000 kg and wins an Olympic gold medal ? I understand he can do it. Yes.

FYI,

The world record for a bench press is around 1,100 lbs. No where near 1000 kg. Not to mention that there's no Olympic medals for the bench press.

[Blessed]

The world record for a bench press is around 1,100 lbs. No where near 1000 kg. Not to mention that there's no Olympic medals for the bench press.

Are there any Olympic medals awarded for Trivia Pursuit?

[Blessed]

FYI,

The world record for a bench press is around 1,100 lbs. No where near 1000 kg. Not to mention that there's no Olympic medals for the bench press.

One thousand One Hundred and Two pounds. Looks like you'll have to settle for a silver medal.

[PaulSacramento]

Not to be an ass but bench pressing is a power lifting event and not an Olympic lift.

My point is that I am sure you can understand that IF God is a God of Love, God them MUST be JUST and if He is Just then how can he treat people that LOOSE faith and keep that KEEP faith in times of tribulation, the same?
His love for both IS the same, but that isn't what we are talking about,is it?

That said, remember what Jesus said, "the last shall be first and the first last" and that there will be many at His table that people didn't think would be there.