Kenny wrote:
Welcome back my friend! Ya had me worried for a minute; thought you had gone away!
So your idea of God is that which everything else came from? Suppose that which everything came from was not intelligent, conscious, or capable of thought? Would you still call it God? Or does it also have to be good, smart, powerful, etc. etc. and all the other stuff described in the Bible
Mallz wrote: Haven't gone, just haven't been able to respond. I can be spotty (sorry) and if you feel enough time has past please pm me as a reminder! I don't mean to ignore you, or anyone.
Yes, God could be not intelligent, conscious or capable of thought. And if that is all that God is, then that is God.
So in theory; if the singularity that expanded in what is known as the “Big Bang” was that something that always existed which everything sprouted from, you would consider that God? Fair enough. If it’s non intelligent, conscious, or capable of thought, I may recognize its existence, but I definitely would not call it God.
Kenny wrote:
Something coming from something makes sense to me; something coming from nothing does not.
Mallz wrote: Something comes from nothing=Atheism, and necessarily so. If people believe something comes from something, they believe in God (w/e it is; including the non-intelligent, non-conscious existence which existence sprouts from).
That makes no sense to me. How did you come to this conclusion?
Mallz wrote: There's too many subsets :p. I prefer to break things down to their basics. I never liked the term 'agnosticism' as it really means 'I don't know enough to have an educated conclusion but I'm honest enough about it', whereas atheism is 'God doesn't exist and I believe I have enough knowledge for that conclusion'. Doubtful atheists are in the same camp as doubtful Christians to me (or doubtful w/e).
I don’t think you and I agree on what it means to be Atheist.
Kenny wrote:
Where I fall is a bit more complicated. I don’t like the definition of atheism as one who claims God doesn’t exist. There is a difference between not believing in God vs believing God doesn’t exist. There are people as real as you and I who are worshipped as Gods. I don’t see these people as Gods, but it would be foolish to say they don’t exist. IOW I realize what you or others might choose to call God may exist, but because I don’t call it (or anything else) God I am atheist. According to the link, that would probably put me closer to the category of a gnostic atheist.
Mallz wrote: Can we simplify it? I don't see a difference between 'not believing in God' vs 'believing God doesn't exist'.
To not believe in God:
Whatever claims you make about whatever it is you choose to call God, I don’t believe those claims
To not believe God exist:
Whatever it is you call God, I don’t believe it exist.
Mallz wrote: Belief takes our rational consent, whether or not it's backed by knowledge or fantasy. I'd say you're an atheist if you believe you have enough reasoning (based on knowledge or not) to disbelieve the existence of God.
Which God? Only YOUR God? Atheists don’t believe in any God. To limit atheism to a belief that what is called God doesn’t exist would mean that because there are those who worship the Sun, an atheist would have to deny the Sun exist because someone chooses to call it God. That would be a foolish and impossible position to hold. The reality is; if you don’t believe in God, people will label you atheist.
Mallz wrote: Just because you're open to being wrong, well, doesn't mean much to your position, just your own honesty. From what you describe, it seems you fall into the atheist camp, but you're willing to be proven wrong. But from my position in reality, do you see how I see atheism as a truly small camp that not many people fit into?
From your position, I see atheism as an impossible camp that nobody fits into. But as I said earlier; it seems you and I don’t agree on what it means to be atheist.
Mallz wrote: And it's interesting engaging with what I consider to be a 'real atheist' which is someone who believes something comes from nothing.
Atheists don’t believe something came from nothing, that’s just theistic propaganda. Think about it; if I asked you where did God come from; would you claim he came from nothing? Whatever rules, or laws of nature, reality, etc. that you can break in order to proclaim God didn’t come from nothing; the atheist can break and apply to something that is not God.
Mallz wrote: What I can't get past, is the atheist philosophy because it's so gnostic at the basics of reality and takes great faith.
Oh so there is an atheist philosophy now? And it requires faith? Tell me about it! (*hint* more theistic propaganda)
