Russian Jet Shot Down by Syrian Rebels

[Philip]

Blessed: "I don't see how that relates to the U.S. being a Christian nation."

So, WHAT exactly is a Christian NATION? Is it one in which a significant majority of people CALLED or CALL themselves Christians - many of whom are merely cultural Christians, raised with an exterior of Christian religiosity and self-identification, yet are not true committed followers submitted to Jesus? Or is it a nation in which the vast majority have sincere, committed and obedient faith in Christ? Because there is an IMMENSE difference. And let's be clear - many people past AND present who HAVE been Christians, yet ones who have nonetheless sinfully gone against the teachings of Christ. ALL Christians are sinners. And many non-Christians are often show basic decency and morals in how they treat others (yes, and many do not). But I would say, at best, 1/3 of the U.S. MIGHT be Christians today. And, today, as in yesteryear, there are m any who ascribe to Christian self-identification and have a political / cultural Christianity with certain views - but that are in no way truly Christians - although they THINK they are.

Ok .. so you're saying this is me... that I'm not really a Christian ..

I'm noting that there is a difference between people who consider themselves a cultural Christian and like Christian values and morality, as opposed to those who are true Christian per SCRIPTURE'S definition of what that means. A TRUE Christian is a committed follower of the historical Jesus recorded in the Bible - they've cast their faith upon Him and asked Him to save them. And that Jesus is not only the Son of God - as He IS God, and claimed it! And many passages back this up.

Note that even before Jesus was born into the world as a man, the prophecy of this foretold exactly WHAT and WHO He would be:

"For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; And the government will rest on His shoulders; And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty GOD, Eternal FATHER, Prince of Peace." (Isaiah 9:6)

Point of this - anyone having the Scriptures of WHO Jesus is, and then DENIES Him to be God, does not believe in the historical Jesus described in the Bible. As a Jesus who is not GOD, isn't the historical Jesus of Scripture. Read more here: http://www.godandscience.org/doctrine/w ... s_god.html. This is THE definition of the cults who believe in A Jesus, but not THE Jesus - they all deny He is God.

Sorry for the thread hijack - but an important point - which is that massive numbers of people CALLING themselves Christians are not - certainly not by the Biblical definition - which is all that matters.

[Kurieuo]

Really, Christians are those who belong to Christ, and only Christ knows all who He will confess and acknowledge. Scripture is clear, like in John 3:16, that we must trust in Christ and not in ourselves.

The Gospels are all about Christ and the good news he brought to us. He is the one prophecied in Daniel 9 who would be put to death around 32 AD, who would put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in righteousness.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UG1BewWd74

[edwardmurphy]

Of course I find an inconsistency! But I don't understand how these two issues are at all related. Your saying when the U.S. was a Christian nation blacks were marginalized. But back in the 1950's-1960's wasn't the African American illegitimacy rate was less than 10%. Today it's over 70% and blacks fill the prisons? Black unemployment was low. Today it is higher.

But I am getting offtrack here because I don't understand how these 2 things are related. I was saying the U.S. used to be a Christian nation and I found an dining menu where the Lord's Prayer is said before the meal. And you started talking about racism. I don't understand.

The point I'm trying to make is that, presumably, the US being a Christian nation is a good thing. If that's the case then it should be no trouble to make an apples to apples comparison between the fallen US of today and the US of whenever our country was more Christian, and therefore clearly better.

The problem is that, at least from where I'm standing, making that comparison is very difficult, and perhaps even impossible. You mentioned that a large majority of Black children are born out of wedlock and raised by single mothers. I agree that that's a problem. However, when you try to use it as evidence that things used to be better - in this case for Black families - you immediately run into slavery, the Black Laws, the KKK, the White Citizens' League, Jim Crow, segregation, lynchings, and so forth. Those things clearly violate Christ's teachings, yet they were commonplace throughout America's Christian past. So what gives? How was that better?

If you try to make the argument that things were better for women when they were able to stay in their traditional, Christian kitchens and raise traditional Christian kids you quickly run afoul of the facts that women were denied the right to vote, it wasn't considered a crime to rape one's wife, domestic violence was largely ignored, and divorce, even from a complete bastard of a husband, wasn't socially acceptable. That was better?

I don't want to spend the rest of my morning making similar then-and-now comparisons, but they're not hard to come by. And, to me at least, that brings us to the inescapable conclusion that the Christian America of nostalgic yesteryear wasn't better than the far more secular present. Things were just as screwed up then as they are now, just in different ways. That being the case, I'm not seeing how being more Christian is synonymous with being better. Frankly, for the majority of Americans it was frequently a good deal worse.

[Blessed]

Of course I find an inconsistency! But I don't understand how these two issues are at all related. Your saying when the U.S. was a Christian nation blacks were marginalized. But back in the 1950's-1960's wasn't the African American illegitimacy rate was less than 10%. Today it's over 70% and blacks fill the prisons? Black unemployment was low. Today it is higher.

But I am getting offtrack here because I don't understand how these 2 things are related. I was saying the U.S. used to be a Christian nation and I found an dining menu where the Lord's Prayer is said before the meal. And you started talking about racism. I don't understand.

The point I'm trying to make is that, presumably, the US being a Christian nation is a good thing. If that's the case then it should be no trouble to make an apples to apples comparison between the fallen US of today and the US of whenever our country was more Christian, and therefore clearly better.

The problem is that, at least from where I'm standing, making that comparison is very difficult, and perhaps even impossible. You mentioned that a large majority of Black children are born out of wedlock and raised by single mothers. I agree that that's a problem. However, when you try to use it as evidence that things used to be better - in this case for Black families - you immediately run into slavery, the Black Laws, the KKK, the White Citizens' League, Jim Crow, segregation, lynchings, and so forth. Those things clearly violate Christ's teachings, yet they were commonplace throughout America's Christian past. So what gives? How was that better?

If you try to make the argument that things were better for women when they were able to stay in their traditional, Christian kitchens and raise traditional Christian kids you quickly run afoul of the facts that women were denied the right to vote, it wasn't considered a crime to rape one's wife, domestic violence was largely ignored, and divorce, even from a complete bastard of a husband, wasn't socially acceptable. That was better?

I don't want to spend the rest of my morning making similar then-and-now comparisons, but they're not hard to come by. And, to me at least, that brings us to the inescapable conclusion that the Christian America of nostalgic yesteryear wasn't better than the far more secular present. Things were just as screwed up then as they are now, just in different ways. That being the case, I'm not seeing how being more Christian is synonymous with being better. Frankly, for the majority of Americans it was frequently a good deal worse.

I don't know how to respond because you're comparing different things. American society was predominantly Christian and this was overwhelmingly reflected in it's culture. But your saying it's bad, because racism was institutionalized by that same culture. I see these as totally different issues. So I don't know how to answer your conundrum. Your comparing this vast thing to a specific thing - racism - and I can't answer it.

There are no reliable statistics on the social problems you mention. Women were denied the right to vote as they were known to be emotional and also denied the right to hold priesthood. The values were different at this time. Human values are always changing with the times, Edward. That is the problem with Humans deciding what is "right" and "wrong when they stray from God's teachings.

You're simply wrong when you say it was worse the the majority when the statistics I've seen show otherwise. Also older people remember what things were like back then and I've always liked talking to old people because they were there.

I don't know how you could say things were worse back then for the majority.

[Blessed]