Abortion - Irish have done it. Consequences ?

[RickD]

Neo,

I'd like to know on what basis you make a distinction between human and human being.

And why you'd disagree that the nature of the person in the womb is identical to a the nature of a person at any point in his life.

The person in the womb is human by nature. Why do you disagree?

[neo-x]

I see that nuance Nicki. That is why I would also think that a baby vome to term or close to it is a different matter. Any late or very late abortion is obviously a problem. However you rick and stu are claiming something which is at best disputed.

If I see evidence to the contrary i would have no problem accepting what you claim. At present I don't hence I don't agree with you.

[neo-x]

Neo,

I'd like to know on what basis you make a distinction between human and human being.

And why you'd disagree that the nature of the person in the womb is identical to a the nature of a person at any point in his life.

The person in the womb is human by nature. Why do you disagree?

I will reply later Rick. My dad is hospitalized at the moment.

[Philip]

Neo, hope it's nothing too serious and that he will be OK.

[RickD]

Neo,

I'd like to know on what basis you make a distinction between human and human being.

And why you'd disagree that the nature of the person in the womb is identical to a the nature of a person at any point in his life.

The person in the womb is human by nature. Why do you disagree?

I will reply later Rick. My dad is hospitalized at the moment.

I hope everything is ok.

[neo-x]

Neo,

I'd like to know on what basis you make a distinction between human and human being.

And why you'd disagree that the nature of the person in the womb is identical to a the nature of a person at any point in his life.

The person in the womb is human by nature. Why do you disagree?

I will reply later Rick. My dad is hospitalized at the moment.

I hope everything is ok.

It is h.s. Perpura and it has caused swelling on his colon. He is in considerable pain. I apologize if I reply later. Getting proper health care here is an exercise in pain. Have spent the afternoon running after doctors and nurses.

[PaulSacramento]

If life is sacred, human life at least, then ALL human life is sacred and since life begins at conception ( just ask NASA, when they look for life on another planet they look for it a the cellular level), then abortion is taking a life and a SIN.
The only thing left to discuss is under what conditions it is acceptable and, to me, the only one is if the life of the Mother is in danger.

[RickD]

Neo,

I'd like to know on what basis you make a distinction between human and human being.

And why you'd disagree that the nature of the person in the womb is identical to a the nature of a person at any point in his life.

The person in the womb is human by nature. Why do you disagree?

I will reply later Rick. My dad is hospitalized at the moment.

I hope everything is ok.

It is h.s. Perpura and it has caused swelling on his colon. He is in considerable pain. I apologize if I reply later. Getting proper health care here is an exercise in pain. Have spent the afternoon running after doctors and nurses.

Please don't worry about responding here. Take care of your father.

[Philip]

Yes, Neo, I am praying for your father, his recovery, your ability to navigate his healthcare issues.

[LittleHamster]

I too hope and pray that your dad gets well Neo.

In the mean time, the rest of you can read the top post here ->http://www.holyspiritofgod.net/index.html

Scary stuff (from a Catholic's POV anyway)

[Stu]

Just listened to a BBC program where mothers read a nursery rhyme to babies in the womb for 5 weeks. They then stopped reading the nursery rhymes for a while.

Afterwards they picked up again and what they found is that the babies heart-rate decreased when they read the same familiar nursery rhyme to the baby!

When they read an unfamiliar nursery rhyme the hear-rate remained the same.

Even when a stranger read the familiar nursery rhyme the heart-rate decreased again.

What this tells us is that a baby in the womb's brain is functioning. THAT Neo is a sign of being human. Unborn babies are capable of feeling comfort through a familiar nursery rhyme being sung to them.

And you think aborting such a life is Christian-like? Or would not anger God? Come on.

Edit: The name of the documentary is 9 Months That Made You.

[edwardmurphy]

Neo, I hope things are going well with your dad.

Stu, we know when fetal brain function begins. It can be reliably detected at about 25 weeks using an EEG. The onset of brain activity is the closest we come to a consensus view of when life begins, both among scientists and laypeople. That's why 25 weeks is the cutoff for abortion (except in cases were the mother's life is at risk) in most of the United States. The experiment wouldn't have worked prior to that point.

[Stu]

Neo, I hope things are going well with your dad.

Stu, we know when fetal brain function begins. It can be reliably detected at about 25 weeks using an EEG. The onset of brain activity is the closest we come to a consensus view of when life begins, both among scientists and laypeople. That's why 25 weeks is the cutoff for abortion (except in cases were the mother's life is at risk) in most of the United States. The experiment wouldn't have worked prior to that point.

Yeah, didn't catch how old they were.

From what I have understood Neo to be arguing is that even babies that are 25 weeks in can be aborted. They are human, but not human beings according to him.

[neo-x]

Thank you all for your prayers and wishes. My dad is doing much better today. We were able to find good medical care. He will be home soon, I hope. The doctors are very hopeful.


As for the topic at hand. I have nothing new to add except that I understand that it is a very fine line here. I am not advocating for abortion at later stages be it human or human beings. There is no consensus on this but its obvious that each passing day makes that potential turn to reality.

As I said earlier in a previous convo that I don't like abortion. Do mothers have a right to abort. Yes, absolutely imo.

Does it make it murder? I don't think so. I find it over the top. Abortions are tricky things and people do it for many other reasons besides, just not wanting to have a baby for the heck of it.

In my country it mostly happens for reasons of poverty, here safe sex is a new concept. Much like old testament mentality # people like to have many kids and see them as a sign of blessing. Traditional Average household can have 8-12 members. Extreme poverty however stops that from happening as much as it used to be.

My stance over abortion is not connected with the political view in America or other countries. I am just telling you guys how i see it. Perhaps killing a fetus is murder. Maybe I am wrong. But child labor is no blessing guys, child sex trafficking and abuse is no blessing. Starvation and hunger again can make people eat their children if it comes to that. Even the bible records as much.

Even if I concede that abortion is murder and that a fetus is a human being like you guys claim. That has zero effect on the ground realities of poverty and over populated countries.

I am sorry guys but I think when you think of abortion perhaps you guys think that even if the parents are not able to raise a child the social services or childcare or govt. would be able to do it. That is true. However, it is a different picture in third world countries.

At this moment I just don't have the strength to go back and again emphasize that science doesn't consider a embryo to be a human being just at a different stage of life. I simply don't. If you guys think that is so, I can't change your mind anymore than you can change mine. If I see evidence that this is so I would be happy to recant my current opinion. I have no problem with this, at all.

But at the moment I don't see a solution or anything that remotely helps in what you claim except that abortion can be called murder. How does that help a woman who has to deliver her tenth child in a society that thinks that having ten children is a blessing? Women die in my country most often because of delivering babies, lack of resources to afford of health care.

I just don't know guys, I am not convinced. That being said I have nothing new to offer at the table and I don't want to repeat myself one reason why is because I don't like the idea of abortion myself. I wish there was an ideal world where every baby was welcome, but that is a squared circle.

[Philip]

Great news on your dad, Neo!