DBowling wrote: ↑Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:46 am
sure it can... again...
Read Exodus 19-24... It's all right there..
I have.
DBowling wrote: ↑Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:46 am
Wrong... Wrong... Wrong...
Christ is not righteous because he keeps the Law.
Christ is able to keep the law BECAUSE he is righteous.
That IS more correct. Agreed. However the point being that the Law either condemns or it doesn't...and it doesn't condemn Christ because He IS righteous....and being righteous means He is NOT guilty of committing sin...which the Law is the measure thereof.
DBowling wrote: ↑Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:46 am
Rhetorical question... I think you know the answer...
Was anyone ever saved by keeping the Old Covenant?
Rhetorical answer: YES! They had the assurance of God's promise/salvation in the same manner we have assurance in God's promise/salvation fulfilled in Christ. Abraham was declared righteous THROUGH faith! It doesn't say Abraham would eventually be declared righteous... No one has been saved yet, literally. Christ's reward is with Him... Revelation 22:12
We are still in this body of sin.
DBowling wrote: ↑Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:46 am
Almost but not quite... OT saints were saved through faith in YHWH not faith in the Old Covenant.
The object of saving faith has always been YHWH (and Jesus is YHWH).
God cannot save without blood! Hebrews 9:22 If it were simply YHWH, there would be no need for the law...the covenant spoken of in Hebrews 9:22
DBowling wrote: ↑Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:46 amIf that is your position then your position is not Scriptural.
The Law is not the ONLY function to show people their sinfulness.
See Romans 1:18-20 and Romans 2:14-15
Heh...are you suggesting that the Law functions as a showing of God's wrath? Because I'm talking about the 10...not arguing about God's wrath, God's existence nor God being Creator...which Romans 1:18-20 is speaking about.
I've highlighted what this text is referring to plainly:
Romans 1:18-20 NIV wrote:The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.
People are without excuse about God's power and divine nature.
Romans 2:14-15 is speaking exactly about the Law ( the 10 ) point out sin or basic morals intrinsic in God's creation of Man.
Romans 2:14-15 NIV wrote:14(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)
The Law points at sin ( to the believer ) and to "objective" morality to the unbeliever by their own conscience.
You haven't proven it has another function.
DBowling wrote: ↑Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:46 am
I know exactly what a conditional statement is.
And I also know that an if/then statement is by definition a conditional statement.
Now here's Exodus 19:5
5 Now
if you obey me fully and keep my covenant,
then out of all nations you will be my treasured possession. Although the whole earth is mine
I hilighted the "if" for you and I hilighted the "then" for you.
According to Exodus 19:5 the Covenant that YHWH established with Israel at Sinai is by definition (if/then) a conditional covenant.
I thought we had already agreed that there is no salvation in following the Law ( the 10 )...how is it then that you're continually ADDING in the 10 as a condition...you said even "if/then". God's covenant is NOT
IF you keep my 10 commandments
THEN you will be saved. The covenant is if you keep my law, the covenant ( the law that describes the shadow of Christ's blood to come ) then you will be saved! That's the covenant.
The 10 are simply the MECHANISM that CURSES one as a sinner that needs a blood covering.
You know what conditional is, but you're then applying it to something WE'VE agreed is impossible to keep. Therefore the 10 are NOT part of the condition to be kept.
It's simply not logical.
.
.