Texas executes 'ice pick killer' for 1979 rape and murder

[LittleHamster]

There was a last-minute appeal from his lawyers, who argued his veins were too compromised for a lethal injection. His name was 'Danny Bible'.

What is the biblical deal with death penalties anyway ? It sounds like old testament stuff (eye-for-an-eye, tooth-for-a-tooth)

Should we be more forgiving and just keep 'em locked up ?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-texa ... SKBN1JN178

[PaulSacramento]

Death is a release, not a punishment.
I used to be pro death since some crimes deserve it BUT I realized that was an emotional response to certain horrific crimes.
Now I say keep them alive, death is a release from punishment.
Keep them alive in prison, bread and water, get them help so they can understand the honorifics of their crime and then have them live the rest of their life with that understanding.

[Philip]

https://carm.org/capital-punishment-new-testament

https://www.gotquestions.org/death-penalty.html

[LittleHamster]

......Keep them alive in prison, bread and water, get them help so they can understand the honorifics of their crime and then have them live the rest of their life with that understanding.

This would leave open the possibility of a murderer repenting while incarcerated. But I read somewhere that Catholics believe that Murder is a "Mortal" sin (meaning it's unrepentable).

https://www.gotquestions.org/death-penalty.html

That post says "God has given government the authority to determine when capital punishment is due (Genesis 9:6; Romans 13:1-7)." There are corrupt governments, people overthrow governments, governments fight wars with other governments, one government says kill him, the other says, no we must protect the sanctity of life. So which Government do you follow? Does that mean execution merely a moral/ethical issue ? Is it purely up to us to decide whether we terminate someones life based on the 'moral of the times' ?

[Philip]

I think one answer has to do with whether one is falsely accused or not. And note the government of the land when Paul wrote the Romans passage. And the Roman government was exceptionally corrupt. Also, the same God who set the penalty of death for murder was also the same One who submitted to execution without ever criticizing capital punishment.

[LittleHamster]

Ah yes, the old argument: "it was later proven he was innocent, unfortunately we already executed him". I don't think anyone can ever know 100% for sure if one is guilty of murder unless the murdered themselves admits to doing the crime (even then it's not 100%, he maybe lying to protect someone else for example). As far as religions go, it's a bit of a mixed bag:- Catholics - yes, Orthodox - No, etc.(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_ ... punishment).

Then there's the drug dealers, rapists, pedo's, etc.... Some countries execute them too. (Even the odd forum poster )

Christian mystics view death differently, they see it as life just changing from one form to another. So bumping off a few people for severe crimes is not a big a deal for them as the rest of us make it out to be.

[PaulSacramento]

This would leave open the possibility of a murderer repenting while incarcerated. But I read somewhere that Catholics believe that Murder is a "Mortal" sin (meaning it's unrepentable)

And?
You do realize that to repent means to be FULLY AWARE of your sin, right?
This is not a bad thing.

[LittleHamster]

This would leave open the possibility of a murderer repenting while incarcerated. But I read somewhere that Catholics believe that Murder is a "Mortal" sin (meaning it's unrepentable)

And?
You do realize that to repent means to be FULLY AWARE of your sin, right?
This is not a bad thing.

Yes, its good. I agree Paul !

Now back to Romans 13:1-7. Some governments would have a field day with that one. "That dude is wearing the wrong color socks, time to execute him !"

[Philip]

Clearly there can be immoral use of the death penalty. And applying it unfairly, dishonestly, unequally - all unjust. But as for society demanding a deliberate murderer pay for his crime with his own life. Entirely just!

[LittleHamster]

Clearly there can be immoral use of the death penalty. And applying it unfairly, dishonestly, unequally - all unjust. But as for society demanding a deliberate murderer pay for his crime with his own life. Entirely just!

Yep. It boils down to either "yes, we want justice, execute him" or "keep him alive, try and rehabilitate him and he might eventually repent".

I think Saul (Apostle Paul) was supposedly a murderer? I reckon he would have thanked his lucky stars that God had singled him out for repentance rather than some other not-so-pleasing alternative.

A final (stressful) thought. If you had two grown up children, and you witnessed one murdering the other, would you either execute your remaining child or would you try and rehabilitate him and give him a chance to repent ?

[Philip]

Just because a person is sentenced to death does not mean they can't repent. In fact, facing death - if they wouldn’t repent THEN, well, they probably wouldn’t even if they lived to a ripe old age!

[LittleHamster]

Just because a person is sentenced to death does not mean they can't repent. In fact, facing death - if they wouldn’t repent THEN, well, they probably wouldn’t even if they lived to a ripe old age!

Does that mean, if you had the option, you would execute your own flesh and blood ? Flick the switch ? Squeeze the trigger ? Open the Gas Valve ? Press the Syringe ? Drop the Guillotine ? Open the trap door beneath the noose ? Let the Horses Bolt in 4 directions ?

Sounds a tad Brutal Phillip.....Brutal !

[RickD]

I'm very rarely on the fence on any issue as important as the taking of someone's life, but I find myself not having a side on this one.

I guess I'd just say that I'm not anti-death penalty per se, but I think the system has too many flaws here in the US, for me to be assured that innocent people aren't getting killed.

Too bad we don't have a Siberia here in the US.

[Philip]

And Rick brings up an important point - the system is flawed. I'm only for the death penalty if there is overwhelming, virtually undeniable evidence of premeditated murder. A lot of past convictions have not met that criteria.

Could I execute my own child for a deliberate murder? No. Would he be deserving of it? Yes! Would I fault the system or reliable witnesses and the jury who gave the guilty verdict? No! Life is GOD-given and precious - it's why HE said that there ARE reasons society should so punish one who takes what He has made. And this is the ultimate sin against society. I believe the society that truly treasures life has a just response for those who would take it. Not to mention the idea that our tax dollars would go for a lifetime of feeding and housing such people is obscenely wrong - it's the forcing of society to pay for the murderers' sin beyond the devastating impact the victim's tragic death has already cost their families.

I personally knew and very briefly worked with a guy who was later found to have murdered several women. I also happened to go to a small church that was pastored by the husband of one of the victim's sister. The sister even visited the guy on death row. But after the guy was executed, her whole family felt a great sense of relief and that justice had been done. And they had prayed for the guy's salvation, didn't hate him, and didn't desire revenge. But they did desire justice - which brought them comfort and closure. And this is the virtually the universal response of murder victims' families after such executions.

[LittleHamster]

You make some good points Philip (sorry, I keep spelling your name as "Phillip" instead of "Philip" for some reason). I think I agree with you and I also agree with Paul as well. Oh no! how can this be ????

Anyway, here are some more points to consider:

- The majority of humanity is condemned under the law already. The wage of sin being death. Capital punishment is sort of like the condemned condemning the condemned.

- Jesus had 'cursed' a tree and the next day, the tree had withered away and died. He could have easily pointed the finger at any murderer and condemned them to a speedy death too. But no! He came not to condemn but to save. Should we as Christians try and do the same ?

- I had a brief conversation with a friend of mine who is a Christian.
I asked him: "Dude, what do you reckon we should do with all the pedo's in this country"
He said: "They should all be rounded up and exterminated with extreme prejudice !!!!"
I said: "What ? What sort of Christian view is that ????"
He said: "Nothing to do with Christianity. Pedo's a are a disease of the worst kind imaginable - worse than cancer. They infect children who either end up committing suicide, end up with psychological disorders and make the rest of their lives miserable or in some cases, become abusers themselves.
(note: we had a case here in my country where just one person abused something like 60 boys and 50 of them ended up committing suicide later on in life)

I better stop, I'm getting a bit emotional