Is Playing 'Magic: The Gathering' Sinful?

[Stu]

Just to be clear, any poker played is with money that we are willing to lose. And very little of it at that.

It's not money needed for food, electricity or any other essentials. You play the lottery, it's the same thing. You must be able to lose it all. But like I said, if we do play for real money, it would be for peanuts no where near making a living from or making any decent cash off of friends/family, that would just feel wrong. It's purely for the lols and getting one up on the other.

[Philip]

But there IS high stakes poker and other games! And it doesn't mean every point one gambles at has to be for high dollar amounts - as collectively, with time, large sums can easily be lost. And what may seem like a slight loss, for some, is a critical difference to themselves or those they are responsible for. There are many people addicted to gambling. Whenever one risks unnecessarily whatever amounts they and their families can't afford to lose, and / or to win it takes away from similar families - it's wrong! Or where a substantial sum risked could do others good that need it.

[RickD]

Gambling with money is a very bad idea from the Christian viewpoint, it's the opposite of being a wise steward. I'd argue that Magic: The Gathering is less harmful because money isn't involved, but I wouldn't feel good about playing Magic either.

So, from a Christian viewpoint, 401k accounts, other retirement accounts, buying real estate, etc., are very bad ideas?

What about the poker player who is very good at what he does? The one who can make a good living by being good at poker?

No, and I'm not even sure how you are comparing the two. For a lot of folks, gambling is a sin. 401k and real estate are good investments. Also, just because you can make a living off something doesn't make it right.

You seriously don't see why I made the comparison? 401k and real estate aren't always good investments. Just ask those who lost their 401k savings a while back. And plenty of people have made bad decisions with real estate investing, or have lost money when the real estate market dropped.

My point is, that whether it's poker, or 401k, or real estate, they are all forms of gambling. There are many professional poker players, who are really good at poker, who make a very good living off of poker.

Not all gambling is luck of the draw. Some takes skill.

[RickD]

But there IS high stakes poker and other games! And it doesn't mean every point one gambles at has to be for high dollar amounts - as collectively, with time, large sums can easily be lost. And what may seem like a slight loss, for some, is a critical difference to themselves or those they are responsible for. There are many people addicted to gambling. Whenever one risks unnecessarily whatever amounts they and their families can't afford to lose, and / or to win it takes away from similar families - it's wrong! Or where a substantial sum risked could do others good that need it.

So you're saying not all gambling is bad? And if one uses good judgement it may be fine for them?

[claysmithr]

Gambling with money is a very bad idea from the Christian viewpoint, it's the opposite of being a wise steward. I'd argue that Magic: The Gathering is less harmful because money isn't involved, but I wouldn't feel good about playing Magic either.

So, from a Christian viewpoint, 401k accounts, other retirement accounts, buying real estate, etc., are very bad ideas?

What about the poker player who is very good at what he does? The one who can make a good living by being good at poker?

No, and I'm not even sure how you are comparing the two. For a lot of folks, gambling is a sin. 401k and real estate are good investments. Also, just because you can make a living off something doesn't make it right.

You seriously don't see why I made the comparison? 401k and real estate aren't always good investments. Just ask those who lost their 401k savings a while back. And plenty of people have made bad decisions with real estate investing, or have lost money when the real estate market dropped.

My point is, that whether it's poker, or 401k, or real estate, they are all forms of gambling. There are many professional poker players, who are really good at poker, who make a very good living off of poker.

Not all gambling is luck of the draw. Some takes skill.

It's an absurd comparison, have you heard of real estate or 401k addicts? If someone loses all their money in their 401k, do they need support groups to stop investing in their future retirement, or would it be encouraged to try again? They are generally safe investments, which is a day/night difference from gambling.

The problem with gambling is that it can be highly addictive and highly devastating sin. It uses human reward psychology against humans to get them to lose vast sums of money. Poker players only win when others lose.

There are many professional poker players sex workers, who are really good at poker sex, who make a very good living off of poker sex.

See the problem?

[RickD]

claysmithr wrote:
It's an absurd comparison, have you heard of real estate or 401k addicts? If someone loses all their money in their 401k, do they need support groups to stop investing in their future retirement, or would it be encouraged to try again? They are generally safe investments, which is a day/night difference from gambling.

Generally safe doesn't mean they can't be unsafe. Generally speaking, most people that gamble, don't get addicted.

The problem with gambling is that it can be highly addictive and highly devastating sin. It uses human reward psychology against humans to get them to lose vast sums of money. Poker players only win when others lose.

You are calling gambling a sin. But for some, it's not a sin. For many people, gambling is a fun way to let off stress and enjoy themselves. Maybe gambling isn't for you. So don't gamble then. Drinking alcohol can be highly addictive too. That doesn't mean that everyone who drinks is an alcoholic.

There are many professional poker players sex workers, who are really good at poker sex, who make a very good living off of poker sex.

See the problem?

The only problem I see is that you are making a blanket statement that all gambling is a sin, and comparing it to prostitution.

I can show you scripture that says prostitution is wrong. Can you show me any scripture to back up your assertion that all gambling is a sin?

We both agree that gambling can be addictive, in some cases.

But labeling it as a sin in every case, has no justification. There are many things that can be addictive, that aren't necessarily sinful.

Again, my point is that if your conscience won't allow you to gamble, then don't gamble. If your conscience won't allow you to drink, then don't drink. But don't judge others who can gamble and drink responsibly.

And btw, I don't gamble, and I hardly ever drink. But I don't judge those who do either responsibly.

[Philip]

LOL, my MIL loves the casinos in CT and MA. She'll crow about how she won more than she lost. But not always does she do so well. I tell her to just send me her money and I'll guarantee to return at least half of it - a risk with at least some guarantee. A mere turn of the screw of slot machines can seriously reduce one's odds of winning. The Indians surely got screwed in the 19th century and before - and now many of them are getting some revenge with their casinos!

[claysmithr]

claysmithr wrote:
It's an absurd comparison, have you heard of real estate or 401k addicts? If someone loses all their money in their 401k, do they need support groups to stop investing in their future retirement, or would it be encouraged to try again? They are generally safe investments, which is a day/night difference from gambling.

Generally safe doesn't mean they can't be unsafe. Generally speaking, most people that gamble, don't get addicted.

The problem with gambling is that it can be highly addictive and highly devastating sin. It uses human reward psychology against humans to get them to lose vast sums of money. Poker players only win when others lose.

You are calling gambling a sin. But for some, it's not a sin. For many people, gambling is a fun way to let off stress and enjoy themselves. Maybe gambling isn't for you. So don't gamble then. Drinking alcohol can be highly addictive too. That doesn't mean that everyone who drinks is an alcoholic.

There are many professional poker players sex workers, who are really good at poker sex, who make a very good living off of poker sex.

See the problem?

The only problem I see is that you are making a blanket statement that all gambling is a sin, and comparing it to prostitution.

I can show you scripture that says prostitution is wrong. Can you show me any scripture to back up your assertion that all gambling is a sin?

We both agree that gambling can be addictive, in some cases.

But labeling it as a sin in every case, has no justification. There are many things that can be addictive, that aren't necessarily sinful.

Again, my point is that if your conscience won't allow you to gamble, then don't gamble. If your conscience won't allow you to drink, then don't drink. But don't judge others who can gamble and drink responsibly.

And btw, I don't gamble, and I hardly ever drink. But I don't judge those who do either responsibly.

https://www.openbible.info/topics/gambling
https://www.gotquestions.org/gambling-sin.html

The bible is essentially against the love of money and get rick quick schemes. Gambling addiction, like alcohol addiction, can also be devastating. We're also supposed to be wise stewards of our resources.

1 Thessalonians 5:22 - Abstain from every form of evil.

I am of the belief that the Christian should try to abstain from even a hint of evil/sin, which is why my personal advice is to stay away from both, or play for something that isn't real money.

[RickD]

Way back when I was a drinker, gambler, and satanist, my friends and I used to play poker with tarot cards. One time, I got a full house, and four people died.