Yeah, Mr. Hawking passed away, and...

[Kurieuo]

I'd say don't read a science paper, but rather study it. Just like anyone can read the Bible, a few verses, but again if serious then study it. The last thing we need are more pop science commentators or opinions on Scripture from those who have ripped it entirely out of context without any real interpretative method.

Just adding, but otherwise agree with your general idea.

[LittleHamster]

Scary. I just found this on youtube. It says he didn't make it. There are corroborating comments from others who have also seen him in hell.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dOwDl09UQU

[1over137]

I do not know the man personally who produced the video.
What to say more?

[LittleHamster]

The two main arguments here (in my opinion) are:

(i) A person has passed on. Leave it alone. Have respect for his family and friends and shut up about his final destination.

(ii) If the Holy Spirit has shown you that he ended up in a particular place (let's say that you were shown that he is in Hell, for example), would it be then your duty to warn other's about it? To warn them about how a person who put more faith in materialism, lacked any real faith in Christ or the existence of God and subsequently caused himself and possibly led millions of others astray to end up in hell ?

[Philip]

A) ANY Christian claiming they know for certain a particular person is in hell is only claiming whatever THEY supposedly know about it - meaning it's unsubstantiated hearsay! B) Are we to believe that an unbeliever that doesn't even believe in Jesus, Heaven or hell is going to be influenced by some Christian claiming they KNOW of a person who has been sentenced to eternal damnation? Please! It smacks of someone "playing to the choir!" And just because an unsaved person might not believe in hell - and even if they hope there isn't such a place - hearing warnings of such a place is unlikely to turn their heart and mind to embrace Jesus. In fact, as unbelievers typically despise this assertion they are risking eternal damnation, it's perhaps more likely that such an assertion will only cause anger, hostility, and a deepening entrenchment of their unbelief.

[Kurieuo]

Hamster, please tell me videos like that don't really challenge you, that you don't just take them at face-value? Skepticism is a good thing.

[LittleHamster]

I was just pointing out the 2 arguments presented by the posters in the video that stuck out as being of significance.

But now that you mentioned it, let's first look at some historical evidence ! The first example to do with a warning about someone going to 'hell' that is worth noting would be that of Jesus' warning us about Judas. From a Christian's point of view, I don't think we can class that one as 'unsubstantiated hearsay'.

Now, there are thousands upon thousands, if not millions, of people with testimonies or experiences of having had contact from people from the other side. A lot of them are to do with departed relatives. There are many more testimonies of people with experiences of visiting heaven and hell - some even on this very forum....amazing !. Now, if we get many testimonies saying the same thing, then the weight of evidence suggests that it is a bit more than 'unsubstantiated hearsay'.

Let's ignore everything above for a moment, because you really need to prove it for yourself to know for sure. So what if the Holy Spirit did, in fact, show you that a high profile individual was indeed in 'Hell'. What would/should you do ?

(i) Say and do nothing because all it would do is make people angry?
(ii) At the risk of upsetting a lot of people, try and warn them that his lack of faith led him to hell?

What if you saw that person in Heaven ? I'm sure you'd rush out and tell the whole world

[Kurieuo]

All we need is already given. Anything else doesn't really matter, if anything it adds noise and says "look at me!". The downside, is that many are taken in by false teachers and cults, and why encourage that? Again, all we need to know is already given. Jesus is the truth that matters, not what someone else wishes to add on top of that. And fwiw, I've had certain experiences, but I don't go telling everyone. I expect many Christians have had certain experiences.

[Philip]

Hamster, millions of people testify to the beliefs within their cults. Many unbiblical things are asserted by supposed believers. So, are we expected to believe something WE can't possibly know about to be true based on the number of such stories? And do you really think this is effective to the ears of unbelievers? BTW, WE are not Jesus. Never try to assert as true something you have zero personal knowledge of!

[LittleHamster]

Good points Philip and Kurieuo. I love you guys (but don't get too chummy).

The only other thing I would mention is that, for some people, they feel the need to evangelize and being able to talk about one's own personal experiences (which we know, cannot be proven to others) would, I think, help in that regard.

It would be better to say "Jesus saves, I know it, I've met him, he's alive !!!" than to say something really dull like "Jesus saves....it's in the bible dude" You could even write your own book about it ...."Heaven's Dominion" by Philip and Kurieuo


Do we need really need to evangelize? That's another good topic -> viewtopic.php?p=14602#p14602







edit: note the time of my post and the number of likes shown below ....strange coincidence Mr. Anderson.....

[Kurieuo]

Good points Philip and Kurieuo. I love you guys (but don't get too chummy).

The only other thing I would mention is that, for some people, they feel the need to evangelize and being able to talk about one's own personal experiences (which we know, cannot be proven to others) would, I think, help in that regard.

It would be better to say "Jesus saves, I know it, I've met him, he's alive !!!" than to say something really dull like "Jesus saves....it's in the bible dude" You could even write your own book about it ...."Heaven's Dominion" by Philip and Kurieuo


Do we need really need to evangelize? That's another good topic -> viewtopic.php?p=14602#p14602







edit: note the time of my post and the number of likes shown below ....strange coincidence Mr. Anderson.....

Everyone has their own way they think is good for reaching others. Fact is, or so I think, personal relationships count for a lot more than being able to recount an extraordinary supernatural experience.

Do you think B.W. would be well-received by many non-Christians? If anything, it seems to be Christians more interested in his story. He gets called to go speak here and there, because it are mainly Christians interested in hearing about, even craving to hear about, what the afterlife is like. Though there would be some evangelical merit to those who aren't so skeptical, I dare say a large proportion of non-Christians would reject him and his story outright.

If someone came up to me to told me about their after-life experience, why I'd be inclined to ignore everything they say. They wouldn't get a look into my brain seriously absorbing anything they say. Perhaps that's just me, but the balony detectors of many non-Christians are often much more sensative than my own. To the point you mention "God" and anything you say after that is considered dribble.

Getting to know a person, having people get to know you i.e., personal relationships, are better. At least then your words and any arguments will have a chance of being taken more seriously. There's a chance of some serious dialogue actually ensuing.

[claysmithr]

That video is not factual, it claims Steven Hawking "invented the Big Bang theory", but what they actually mean is "evolution"

Steven Hawking did not invent the big bang theory, and I'm not sure there is anything wrong with the big bang theory either, in fact it points to a creator God.

So, because that video has false information, it makes you wonder what else is false about it.

[LittleHamster]

Youtube 1:15 "Thou shalt believe everything in thy Video's" , LoL

The video was good though in that it raised a couple of issues worth discussing, ie,

1. If you were shown that a high-profile person is in Hell : Keep your trap shut versus being a blabber mouth

2. Many of your own personal experiences of the Holy Spirit : Keep your trap shut versus being a blabber mouth

I'm starting to realize that there is an appropriate time and place for saying just about anything (as well as an inappropriate time). You can talk about Hell, Heaven and Jesus to people and most of the time, especially for unbelievers, they might get annoyed and angry.

Yet, one or two words spoken at the right time can trigger the Holy Spirit into ACTION !!! and this will bring a person into salvation/eternal life.

Personally, I'm a Blabber Mouth. I'll talk about Christianity/Heaven/Hell/Spirituality until I get told to shut up, people walk away, the cows come home or I get banned from posting .

[1over137]

I'm starting to realize that there is an appropriate time and place for saying just about anything (as well as an inappropriate time). You can talk about Hell, Heaven and Jesus to people and most of the time, especially for unbelievers, they might get annoyed and angry.

Yet, one or two words spoken at the right time can trigger the Holy Spirit into ACTION !!! and this will bring a person into salvation/eternal life.

wise words

[LittleHamster]

In his final letter...(https://edition.cnn.com/2018/10/16/heal ... index.html)

"There is no God. No one directs the universe," he writes in "Brief Answers to the Big Questions." "For centuries, it was believed that disabled people like me were living under a curse that was inflicted by God," he adds. "I prefer to think that everything can be explained another way, by the laws of nature."

Looks like he was an Atheist till the end.