Snake-Handling Pastors

[Philip]

First the father, now the son: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... l#comments

Guess they ignore Luke 4: 9-12?

This false belief of handling snakes is due to the last verses of Mark's Gospel that were added FAR later (2nd century) - as they are not in the original manuscripts.

Here they are:

9 Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.
10 And she went and told them that had been with him, as they mourned and wept.
11 And they, when they had heard that he was alive, and had been seen of her, believed not.
12 After* that he appeared in another form unto two of them, as they walked, and went into the country.
13 And they went and told it unto the residue: neither believed they them.
14 Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.
15 And he said unto them,Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.

Note, in the ESV Bible and others, these verses are either missing or they are printed with a footnote questioning their authenticity. Here's a commentary on why these verses aren't authentic: http://www.bible-researcher.com/endmark.html

And every few years, some poor mountain schlub dies from a snakebite! Sigh.

[RickD]

How does that idiom go?

The idiot doesn't fall far from the tree?

[LittleHamster]

Listen to the commentary at 1:45 onwards. (Hint...Hint)

[RickD]

Cenk unger talking about poisonous snakes. He doesn't even know the difference between poison, and venom.

[LittleHamster]

I think he makes a good point. If you lose a body part due to a snake bite and keep doin' what ya doin', well ya know....

If we ignore Luke 4:9-12, some safer alternatives would be:-

(i) Pat a mountain lion,
(ii) Wrestle a kangaroo,
(iii) Feed a crocodile,
(iv) or just flip a coin and call "Heads....there ya go....Faith !"

[claysmithr]

I'm pretty sure the whole snake and poison thing is not literal, but is talking about Christians having authority over the enemy.

[LittleHamster]

It's a good opportunity here to discuss Faith, Blind Belief, Direct Knowing, Will of God.

Does Faith, for example, automatically give you the authority to insert your head into a lions mouth, and by saying "God will protect me", will make everything turn out ok ?

I had a friend who would go around trying to heal everyone by "Faith" and laying his hands on them. He did this for almost a year and managed to heal absolutely no one. He even tried healing people that were not even sick. I think he got a bit obsessed with the whole healing thing.

I've seen a lot of sick people go to a crazy charismatic church, many would go and not get healed. One even died. Although some did receive a healing.

Even Christian mystics say that some things such as the healing of a person will not take place because the Holy Spirit won't play ball. I think therein lies the key. Knowing the will of God is everything. Even having the ability to directly know God's will is not something you can obtain by works, it has to be granted. Otherwise just believing that something will happen if "I pray and have faith" is hit-miss at best (mostly miss).

"Dear Heavenly Father, I have 100% faith that you will keep me safe from that snake"

or

"Dear Heavenly Vending Machine, I have 100% faith and ask that I receive a free gift of 10 million dollars today"

"....but I'm willing to cut a deal, I'll take 5 mill now and gimme the rest in a year or two "

[thatkidakayoungguy]

Then ofc ppl will complain about why God didn't allow them to be healed. Sometimes it's understandable to wonder why as I do it myself since I've seen a lot of crap, first hand and second hand-family esp parents. Other times it gets annoying as people just show their willful ignorance. If you want to see that, go to Yahoo Answers.

[thatkidakayoungguy]

I'm pretty sure the whole snake and poison thing is not literal, but is talking about Christians having authority over the enemy.

Yea usually not, though miracles do happen occasionally...

[abelcainsbrother]

First the father, now the son: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... l#comments

Guess they ignore Luke 4: 9-12?

This false belief of handling snakes is due to the last verses of Mark's Gospel that were added FAR later (2nd century) - as they are not in the original manuscripts.

Here they are:

9 Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.
10 And she went and told them that had been with him, as they mourned and wept.
11 And they, when they had heard that he was alive, and had been seen of her, believed not.
12 After* that he appeared in another form unto two of them, as they walked, and went into the country.
13 And they went and told it unto the residue: neither believed they them.
14 Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.
15 And he said unto them,Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.

Note, in the ESV Bible and others, these verses are either missing or they are printed with a footnote questioning their authenticity. Here's a commentary on why these verses aren't authentic: http://www.bible-researcher.com/endmark.html

And every few years, some poor mountain schlub dies from a snakebite! Sigh.

Although I view snake handling as tempting God I think we need to understand that those who do this are trying to show off their faith in the scriptures and the power of God and in that context it is hard for me to judge them eventhough I would never handle snakes like them.They are really trying to show the power of God and miracles and I kinda admire that kind of faith.Also I do not believe the last part of Mark was not in the original manuscripts even though I know theologions claim that. This is because I believe the bible has been corrupted with so many of these translations we have today and I don't trust modern scholorship over past scholorship. I believe it is legit about taking up serpents and drinking deadly things however not if we're tempting God while doing. I think it either applies to future Christians that will have supernatural power of God like we have never seen before or it applies to Christian missionaries who go into dangerous situations in order to preach the gospel and they are kept whole while doing it.Like for example,going into a city where Ebola is killing people in order to help and minister to people and they being supernaturally protected.

[Philip]

ACB: Also I do not believe the last part of Mark was not in the original manuscripts even though I know theologions claim that.

Well, ACB, then all you have to do is produce a first century Bible manuscript that includes Mark 16:9-20 - which you will not be able to produce documentation of - as it doesn't exist. It's a matter of the evidence, not what you believe about what doesn't exist!

Here is what scholars who know about this issue (the 2nd century verses added to Mark's Gospel) state: http://www.bible-researcher.com/endmark.html

[abelcainsbrother]

ACB: Also I do not believe the last part of Mark was not in the original manuscripts even though I know theologions claim that.

Well, ACB, then all you have to do is produce a first century Bible manuscript that includes Mark 16:9-20 - which you will not be able to produce documentation of - as it doesn't exist. It's a matter of the evidence, not what you believe about what doesn't exist!

Here is what scholars who know about this issue (the 2nd century verses added to Mark's Gospel) state: http://www.bible-researcher.com/endmark.html

Did you know modern bible scholors have killed Moses? Would you believe scholors if they killed Jesus? I would'nt. Past bible scholors acknowledged Moses but modern ones make it seem like he did not write the first five books of the OT.This means either the past bible scholors were correct or the modern bible scholors are and I trust the old ones far more than the new ones.I do not accept this idea that they have greater bible knowledge than past bible scholors who included the last part of Mark unlike modern bible scholors who claim it should not be there.Who are they? Who do we trust?

When they are taking away from God's word which Revelation warns about.They don't seem to mind taking away from the bible.I don't like it personally and don't trust them. I have touched on this before about how young earth creationists have altered our bible to give a young earth interpretation and yet it is ignored by some.I'm just being honest about how I see things,we can disagree. Also Jesus did warn of false teachers and false prophets in the last days that if possible could decieve the very elect of God and I take his warnings about the end times seriously.

[Thunderbolt47]

I've heard about these pastors from Africa, handling snakes, walking with crocodiles, calling their sperm "holy milk" and asking for his parishioners to, well, drink it...
It is because Christianity was taught there very quickly and with limited linguistic comprehensions by missionaries in the 19th century, so it was naturally heavily mixed with local pagan beliefs. If you come to cities, you will see that it is different because the pastors/priests there were formed by people who were themselves formed by colonists, they had one hundred years of "proper" Christianity being taught to them.

For example, American style evangelism in subsaharan Africa is strong and very close to what is practiced in America because the pastors come from the USA and take time to explain the liturgy and how to worship Jesus to former Catholics, Muslims or Pagans instead of leaving the village as soon as the locals know how to pronounce "Jesus" to keep evangelising new tribes.