Sounds like Al was not a big fan of God.

[LittleHamster]

Einstein's Religion-Bashing 'God Letter' Expected to Sell for $1.5 Million at Christie's.

"The word God is for me nothing but the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of venerable but still rather primitive legends," Einstein wrote (translated into English). "No interpretation, no matter how subtle, can (for me) change anything about this."

https://www.livescience.com/63741-einst ... sties.html

Although he did not consider himself an Atheist.....

"Einstein vocally rejected the idea of a personal God who concerned himself with the comings and goings of human beings, but likewise did not consider himself an atheist. In a letter penned in March 1954, he explained, "If something is in me which can be called religious, then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.""

That was written a year before he died. It sounds like he got to a point where he was seriously questioning the meaning of life, the universe, etc., but never quite received the gift of Grace (although there is still a chance he might have got it towards the last few months of his life).

[PaulSacramento]

Probably why when the Big Bang theory came out, he went bat-[poop], LOL.
Einstein had no idea what God is, I think that if he had pout as much time into understanding what God is as he had with his other theories, he probably would have understood God far better.

[LittleHamster]

I'm guessing he got the same fate as Hawking. Let's speculate on why such brilliant scientists may not receive salvation:


(i) They put more faith in their scientific discoveries rather than in Jesus Christ and therefore do not get called upon for salvation or

(ii) They are called upon by God and they are given the opportunity to accept Jesus as their savior but they are also too entangled in their own egotistical activities to realize that God is calling them to eternal life or

(iii) God looks at the persons heart and then decides whether they should or should not receive salvation or

(iv) Humans beings with lop-sided development (i.e., those that have too much of either - mental or physical or emotional development) - extreme academics being a classic case of having too much of the 'mental', subsequently do not receive the new (fourth) body - only those with universal development are Graced with the 'fourth body' (leading to eternal life). or

(v) It depends on how developed a person's spirit-soul is (as gathered over previous incarnations from other human beings) - depending on the development of this higher soul (which is also reflected in the earthly person), determines whether the current incarnated human being should be called to receive eternal life or

(vi) a combination of the above or

(vii) something else ?

[Philip]

Hammy: (i) They put more faith in their scientific discoveries rather than in Jesus Christ and therefore do not get called upon for salvation or

I'm not getting you - "therefore do not get called upon for salvation" - Hammy, ANYONE can call upon the Lord. It sounds like you might believe in some kind of Calvinist view - that only those the Lord calls upon can be saved?

Hammy: (iii) God looks at the persons heart and then decides whether they should or should not receive salvation or

God only looks at whether they rejected Him or whether they reached BACK to Him in faith, as those who respond to God's wooing and prompting are the ones God will make aware of Jesus and the Gospel, and bring them all the way to knowledge and faith in Jesus. But they must desire God and not permanently avoid or reject Him! IF they are truly open, willing and desire to seek the Lord - to respond to whatever glimmer of light He has ALREADY shown them, then He will eventually connect and provide them with all they need to know, about Jesus and the Resurrection. We have no Scriptural New Testament example of one being saved that does not first hear about Jesus and His Crucifixion and Resurrection.

Hammy: (iv) Humans beings with lop-sided development (i.e., those that have too much of either - mental or physical or emotional development) - extreme academics being a classic case of having too much of the 'mental', subsequently do not receive the new (fourth) body - only those with universal development are Graced with the 'fourth body' (leading to eternal life). or

Hammy, what is this "fourth body" stuff???!!! It's certainly not a Scriptural concept!

Hammy: (v) It depends on how developed a person's spirit-soul is (as gathered over previous incarnations from other human beings) - depending on the development of this higher soul (and is also reflected in the person), determines whether the current incarnated human being should be called to receive eternal life or

Hammy - you believe in re-incarnation??? Why - this is a belief that goes against the teachings of Scripture.

Hebrews 9:27: "And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment"

Notice that this chain of lives taught by those who believe in reincarnation is refuted by the above verse. As when one dies - what does it say is "NEXT" - "judgment!"

2 Corinthians 5: 8: "Yes, we are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord."

Reincarnation is a pantheistic belief, of which it is asserted that there is a chain of births, lives, deaths, and rebirths - as well as that the universe, all creatures and all men are part of an eternal cycle constantly furthered by rebirths. Major problem with that belief - besides that it is found nowhere in the Bible (and not only is it not found, but the Bible's teachings directly contradict it) - but the universe had a BEGINNING, so it cannot be eternal, and only something eternal (God!) that stands outside of it could have created it - it certainly could not have created itself! And reincarnation beliefs assert the idea of "karma" - a terrible belief that has resulted in vast prejudice and horrible treatment of those born in lower class conditions, as practiced in India - actually perpetuating the very thing that karma supposedly corrects. If karma is punishment or reward for the mistake of past lives, why is it that the world is just about as evil as it has ever been? Wouldn't one think karma by now would have taught most people they should live more moral, loving lives - but that's not what we see across the world, is it?

Why is it, that myself and the thousands of people I've encountered, I've never come across someone who has asserted a past life? Whatever, NO Christian who is Bible literate should ever believe in reincarnation!

[LittleHamster]

Philip !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! X1000

(v) is not reincarnation. It is referring to the multiple incarnations of the spirit-soul. Human beings do not reincarnate in this example, however they do inherit the karma of their souls past incarnations.

(viii) Service ! Not as in self-service (like a lot of self absorbed scientists do) but service to the will of God. This generates the energy necessary for the Holy Spirit to create the 'fourth' body. "What is our reward for service" asked the disciples......"More service" replied JC.

The 'fourth' body is the body necessary to exist in the heavenly worlds - or as some belief systems put it, the fourth body allows one to exist in the fourth plane of existence (salvation) - and from that point, one can reach even higher worlds.

I'm just putting forward some alternative theories that spring to mind. Maybe you can give us the definitive scriptural interpretation Edit: ok, I re-read your post and get the picture on your view.

[Philip]

Hammy: Human beings do not reincarnate in this example, however they do inherit the karma of their souls past incarnations.

Also, clearly, an unScriptural view.

First of all, you, me, and all people, are composed of the physical and the spiritual. But are we dichotomous or trichotomous in construction? There is theological debate of how this may work. Consider the following link concerning, "Do we have two or three parts? Body, soul, and spirit? Are we a dichotomy or a trichotomy?" https://www.gotquestions.org/body-soul-spirit.html

One thing is certain, karma is not how God works. If God gave us what karma would dish out, none of us would be saved, as we'd merely reap the karma from all of our sin. Thank God He does not treat us in such a way. God does the exact opposite - per faith in Christ - He cleanses us and sees us as righteous - even while we are yet sinners (in the flesh). If there is a so-called "karma of the soul," it is only the reaping of whether we rejected God or embraced and submitted ourselves to Him. But as for karma defined by the New Age and mysticism - absolutely NOT!

[patrick]

Really, LittleHamster, why does this matter? Einstein made brilliant discoveries, but he wasn't right about everything, even in his chosen field. In the debates he had with Niels Bohr regarding quantum physics, not only did many of his ideas lose out to Bohr's, many of his thought experiments meant to show why X or Y was absurd just lead to experiments where it was shown that Einstein was thinking clearly up until the point where he assumes that the outcome is too bizzare to be possible.

It really doesn't matter how smart you are. Some people just assume things aren't possible and wait to be proven wrong. The Bible is pretty clear about the importance of faith in Jesus Christ, and anyone who never seriously opens their mind to that can be expected to just end up not believing in God.

[claysmithr]

I got saved in a very calvinistic way. If God doesn't elect people, they remain dead in their sins. Dead people can't really reach out to God.

[Philip]

Clay: I got saved in a very calvinistic way. If God doesn't elect people, they remain dead in their sins. Dead people can't really reach out to God.

This is an unScriptural belief! Ever read in Acts about the very first Gentile to come to Christ? He was seeking God WELL before He was saved. In fact, Scripture tells us that God sent him a vision of an angel who told Him that God was honoring his seeking: "“Your prayers and your alms bhave ascended as a memorial before God."

Read this thread: viewtopic.php?f=16&t=41572&p=226018&hil ... m#p226018

You can respond on that thread linked.

[LittleHamster]

Relax everyone. I am just thinking out aloud in this thread about possible explanations of why some people don't make it. Just because some things are not mentioned in scripture, doesn't make it false or true. But it's always good to compare other beliefs with the bible (nice one Philip !!!!x1000). That is what this thread is about.

I got saved in a very calvinistic way. If God doesn't elect people, they remain dead in their sins. Dead people can't really reach out to God.

Well done claysmithr, looks like we went the same way. Even the most lost of the lost can get the gift it seems. In my particular case, I never had even the tiniest speck of Faith. It was like...."what is all this sh#t that is happening to me". Some religious guy I spoke too kept insisting you gotta have faith first, then the holy spirit comes later. I've seen too many cases of the opposite. Some of this stuff has also been documented throughout the ages i.e., all steps involved in salvation/sanctification/justification/etc., can occur 'out-of-order'.

Philip: "One thing is certain, karma is not how God works."

That's exactly how he works. "You reap what you sow" - and we have sown ourselves into eternal hell - unable to pay our karmic debts. That's why we need Grace.

[Philip]

Hammy, it is quite apparent that you do not know what the belief of karma includes. Otherwise, you wouldn't use that concept in regards to Christianity or the way God saves. Sounds like your idea of sowing is a works thing. And the concept of karma is ALL about works and being given back whatever (good or bad) works one has done.

The other issue about Calvinism or how one is saved - my main point is that salvation is available to EVERYONE! Five Point Calvinism denies this, and also asserts that there is NO choice by man - as God supposedly merely regenerates one to faith. If true, evangelism and the Great Commission wouldn't be necessary or needed!

[LittleHamster]

- my main point is that salvation is available to EVERYONE!

Should read "my main point is that salvation is available to EVERYONE - except those who blaspheme against the Holy Spirit"

ie. almost EVERYONE ?

[LittleHamster]

Really, LittleHamster, why does this matter? Einstein made brilliant discoveries, but he wasn't right about everything, even in his chosen field. In the debates he had with Niels Bohr regarding quantum physics, not only did many of his ideas lose out to Bohr's, many of his thought experiments meant to show why X or Y was absurd just lead to experiments where it was shown that Einstein was thinking clearly up until the point where he assumes that the outcome is too bizzare to be possible.

It really doesn't matter how smart you are. Some people just assume things aren't possible and wait to be proven wrong. The Bible is pretty clear about the importance of faith in Jesus Christ, and anyone who never seriously opens their mind to that can be expected to just end up not believing in God.

Thanks Patrick. This issue doesn't really matter that much and I agree that it (probably) doesn't matter how smart you are. But I still need to explore it - the question of "does it actually work against you being too involved in intellectual pursuits".

Jesus did mention something about praising God for keeping the secrets of Heaven hidden from the learned. I'll try and dig that up. Maybe someone else can dig that up and provide an in-depth explanation about it.

Is it relevant? Why would JC say something like that?

[Philip]

Should read "my main point is that salvation is available to EVERYONE - except those who blaspheme against the Holy Spirit"

No one today can commit Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit - least not as per as it is specifically referred to in the New Testament. Because Jesus isn't walking amongst us healing people today. However, a similar kind of blasphemy could be made today.

https://www.gotquestions.org/blasphemy-Holy-Spirit.html

[Philip]

It really doesn't matter how smart you are.

OTHER THAN, often people who are - or at least seem to be - very smart, are rather full of themselves. Which leads to God's least-favorite sin: Pride! Such people are exceptionally impressed with themselves, and often think their intellect makes them superior in judgment and understandings. And so they are quick to dismiss anything one might assert that they disagree with. And such people tend to actually be rather close-minded, which no truly smart person should be. And so they get blinded by their own narcissism and pride, to the point that, often, many illiterate dirt farmers have more true wisdom. Lest one forgets, excepting the Apostle Paul, none of the rest of the original disciples/apostles were what we would consider scholars or well-educated. But God used them to spread true wisdom that changed the world!