Ghosts

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 6:13 pm

Anyone know what the bible says regarding the existence of ghosts or how they fit in?
Also whats the deal with this Electronic Voice Phenomenon(EVP)?

Mastermind · Post by **Mastermind** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 6:21 pm

I would suspect most of them are the result of creative punishment on satan's part. Or perhaps their minds refusing to travel with their spirits to the other world. I'm not sure what the bible says about them though, but I am 100% convinced they exist.

Prodigal Son · Post by **Prodigal Son** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 6:39 pm

the bible states that we absolutely cannot talk to the dead. if we can't talk to them, why would we see them? i think ghosts are demons or demon tricks.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 6:52 pm

I seem to recall that King Saul was able to speak with the ghost of Samuel. Where does the bible say that it's impossible to communicate with ghosts? Or was it just that one should avoid doing so? Or has the situation changed now Jesus is around?

Prodigal Son · Post by **Prodigal Son** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 9:51 pm

sometimes i don't speak too clearly

--one cannot talk to them; in other words, must not. it is highly condemned. since this act is considered so wrong, it leads me to believe that ghosts are demonic creations. if they were really our loved ones, what would be so wrong about talking with them? also, why wouldn't it be highly condemned to interact with them (see them).

Mastermind · Post by **Mastermind** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 9:53 pm

Does anybody have some scripture verses relating to this subject?

Kurieuo · Post by **Kurieuo** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 10:52 pm

Isaiah 8:19-22—19 When men tell you to consult mediums and spiritists, who whisper and mutter, should not a people inquire of their God? Why consult the dead on behalf of the living? 20 To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, they have no light of dawn. 21 Distressed and hungry, they will roam through the land; when they are famished, they will become enraged and, looking upward, will curse their king and their God. 22 Then they will look toward the earth and see only distress and darkness and fearful gloom, and they will be thrust into utter darkness.

I personally believe one should not consult with spiritualists, because people can be taken advantage of and given false hope. Though not necessarily mediums, I also believe there are many self-proclaimed Christian spiritualists who have sadly taken advantage of many. Isaiah gives the reason why we should not do so. Not only can we be mislead and given false hope, but we would be trading in God for such things. The question perhaps shouldn't be why not consult the dead, but rather why try to consult the dead?

Kurieuo.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 8:21 pm

I read that the Catholic church has in some sense endorsed EVP, although my concern and belief regarding EVP is that its in essence demonic since Demons are everywhere and this EVP seems like a big scam by Satan to pull people away from God.

Mastermind · Post by **Mastermind** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 9:00 pm

what does evp stand for?

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Sun Jan 09, 2005 4:19 pm

electronic voice phenomenon

August · Post by **August** » Sun Jan 09, 2005 5:07 pm

I am still not sure about EVP, there are some explanations for it, but then I have also heard some pretty eery things, including an EVP voice, in response to a question from the investigator as to what spirit was present there: "Tell her it's Satan."

Mastermind · Post by **Mastermind** » Sun Jan 09, 2005 6:17 pm

How would the presence of ghosts pull people away from God? You'd think it would push them colser.

Jac3510 · Post by **Jac3510** » Sun Jan 09, 2005 7:37 pm

There are some issues I have to plead ignorance on. The Bible does condemn, a lot, consulting with the dead. The Bible clearly teaches the existence of a spiritual realm. The Bible has some strong things to say about Hell, but there are some interpretational differences concerning the OT and NT ideas of the two.

For instance, if we were to put more emphasis on the OT idea of Sheol, we could argue that the dead find themselves in sort of semi-slumber--not in an afterlife per-say, but in some sort of limbo awaiting their resurrection. The OT clearly teaches that those in Sheol have the ability to think and reason, albeit those faculties are greatly impaired:

Sheol is a place of darkness (Job 10:21, Job 10:22; Psa 143:3), of silence (Psa 94:17; Psa 115:17), of forgetfulness (Psa 88:12; Ecc 9:5, Ecc 9:6, Ecc 9:10). It is without remembrance or praise of God (Psa 6:5), or knowledge of what transpires on earth (Job 14:21). Even this language is not to be pressed too literally. Part of it is the expression of a depressed or despairing (compare Isa 38:10) or temporarily skeptical (thus in Ecclesiastes; compare Ecc 12:7, Ecc 12:13, Ecc 12:14) mood; all of it is relative, emphasizing the contrast with the brightness, joy and activity of the earthly life (compare Job 10:22, “where the light is as midnight” - comparative). Elsewhere it is recognized that consciousness remains; in Isa 14:9 the shades . . . of once mighty kings are stirred up to meet the descending king of Babylon (compare Eze 32:21). If Sheol is sometimes described as “destruction” (Job 26:6 margin; Job 28:22; Pro 15:11 margin) and “the pit” (Psa 30:9; Psa 55:23), at other times, in contrast with the weariness and trouble of life, it is figured and longed for as a place of “rest” and “sleep” (Job 3:17; Job 14:12, Job 14:13). Always, however, as with other peoples, existence in Sheol is represented as feeble, inert, shadowy, devoid of living interests and aims, a true state of the dead. (ISBE, Old Testament Eschatology)

Given this, then, we could argue that ghosts are actually the dead, confined, in some unspecified way, here on earth, and that they interact in some distant way with the living.

I think it is important to have a very well defined doctrine of the afterlife before looking into questions like ghosts, EVP, and other such phenomena. We cannot directly measure these things. It is the realm of the spiritual, so we can be easily tricked. Shy of the existence of the spiritual, I think there is very little we can say with much assurance. So, it seems wise to me to focus on what we do know rather than on what we don't. If we want to study theology systematically, then we should approach this subject biblically, lay out all the possible biblical scenarios, and then admit that we don't know exactly what we are dealing with. Perhaps something in the future will give us a deeper understanding, but you'll forgive my skeptical attitude on that!

And, MM, I think proof positive of ghosts would go a long way in proving God exists, but that's just me.

numeral2_5 · Post by **numeral2_5** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 3:38 am

Electronic Voice Phenomenon, sounds like a crock.