melanie wrote:Oh this is why and I mean no disrespect Blessed that I have major concerns about the establishment known as Christianity.
I am well aware of this idea that suicide VICTIMS are left burning in the fiery pits of hell and I don’t think it’s a surprise you’ve no scripture supporting the idea. What scripture does show us is the nature of God. Whilst not every question we have is answered in scripture we can look at what we know to be true about God. Our example lies in Jesus. His teachings and His lessons.
Statistically 90% of people who commit suicide are mentally ill followed by people with terminal illnesses. We are talking about the most vulnerable people in society.
So whilst there may not be scripture pertaining directly to suicide, by the very nature of God I think the answer is obvious as to whether suicide equals hell.
"The establishment known as Christianity" - what do you mean by that?
"Statistically 90% of people who commit suicide are mentally ill followed by people with terminal illnesses" - Where do you get those statistics from?
"So whilst there may not be scripture pertaining directly to suicide, by the very nature of God I think the answer is obvious as to whether suicide equals hell."
- I would agree with you - depending on the specific person and circumstances of the suicide. But then again I cannot find any direct scripture other than the book of Samual. Every time I ask I'm given the ten commandments (Thou shall not Kill) and the NT temple references. I can see why people would connect these dots. But even still there is nothing as direct , as say, male homosexuality
I think the answer is to what have you become , is your end result . If a person chooses to be sinful because the pleasure they receive from sin then they are on the path of destruction . It very well may make no difference what kind of lifestyle you came from . Even those that came from terrible childhoods that try to cover the wounds of the soul by drugs and alcohol are not exempt from judgment from their actions. I can only hope that the life we once attained to in christ jesus and being born again and now fallen away from will still afford us some kind of salvation . Yes we may have walked with God for a few yrs and been faithful to him and now fallen away, does that mean we will be in hell? I cant tell you , I choose not to gamble with my salvation so I obey him . I would guess no matter what lifestyle we evolved from there's a age of accountability we all reach when we willfully choose to disobey god and then that is when sin starts to count against us. But as for the truma i received from being raised from a alcoholic father and the terrors we suffered each night by him ( The Circus) God helps me to cope without the use of medications . I have been sober over 27 yrs solid. No breaks in that. The cross before me, the world behind me, no turning back, no turning back Or As the dog goes back the the vomit . I will not give the devil a foothold into my life whereby he may destroy me from the inside out.
claysmithr wrote: ↑Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:03 pm
we are called to be overcomers and endure to the end, and suicide shows an extreme lack of faith.
Ouch! That's a little rough.
Many people who want to commit suicide, are just in so much pain, mentally or physically, that they just want it to stop.
John 5:24 24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
For the CHRISTIAN - and for the Christian ONLY - suicide or ANY cause of death results in one instantly going to be with the Lord! EVERY Christian enters ETERNAL life on earth, as it's merely their location that changes after death.
BTW, there is no such thing as temporary eternal life!
melanie wrote: ↑Sun Nov 12, 2017 7:28 am
It’s okay Rick, you’ll get used to it...most people do
Lose their mind or agree with you?
I think she means that most people that agree with her, lose their minds.
John 5:24 24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
Do you not know that you are God's temple and that God's Spirit dwells in you? If anyone destroys God's temple, God will destroy him. For God's temple is holy, and you are that temple.
Again, the ONLY determinate of whether a person who has committed suicide goes to hell is if he was not a Christian. IF a Christian, he will instantly be with the Lord!
Suicide is a sin. But it is a sin often committed by one desperate to escape a mental hell of severe depression. So, is it a sin greater than murder? Note that King David and Moses committed murder - and yet they were chosen and mightly used by God. So, the question becomes, can a saved person not fall into severe depression and unimaginable pain and take their own life? Of COURSE they can - and many do! God's mercy is greater than his judgment - if not, who amongst us could be saved?
I lean towards the 'maybe go to hell' group on suicide because otherwise Christians might think they can just get to heaven by committing suicide, and I would want to discourage that kind of thinking.
claysmithr wrote: ↑Fri Dec 27, 2019 12:04 pm
I lean towards the 'maybe go to hell' group on suicide because otherwise Christians might think they can just get to heaven by committing suicide, and I would want to discourage that kind of thinking.
There's more to being a Christian than getting eternal life with God. If that is why one is Christian, why it makes me wonder whether one really understands.
That is, how'd you feel if, having committed suicide, you saw Jesus he showed you the ways in which you could have reached others. We ought to be His hands and feet and light bearers here. Now you can't do that. What shame would you feel? The thouoght has been enough to keep me going in some darker moments.
Paul knew it was better for himself to depart, but for the reasons above, didn't just take that road.
For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain. If I am to live in the flesh, that means fruitful labor for me. Yet which I shall choose I cannot tell. I am hard pressed between the two. My desire is to depart and be with Christ, for that is far better. But to remain in the flesh is more necessary on your account. Convinced of this, I know that I will remain and continue with you all, for your progress and joy in the faith... (Philippians 11:21-25)
Who knows God's plan in our life and how He will use us. Try and make a difference while you still can.
"Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." (Romans 10:13)
That so many Christians think suicide means automatic hell tells me that A) they don't truly understand what it means to be saved, and B) neither do they understand what drives most suicide - unimaginable depression, often so bad one cannot bare living another moment. This is why so many suicides appear to be impulsive.
