US Withdrawing from Syria

[edwardmurphy]

It is not Republican or Democrat ideas,it is Nationalism - putting America and the American people first.

Again, it would be Democratic ideas, because you're describing what you believe to be ideas that originated with the Democratic Party. Refusing to acknowledge that simple fact is idiotic.

Of course,we are transitioning away from the faiiled politics of the past but it takes time.

Which policies are those? Please be specific.

spe·cif·ic
/spəˈsifik/
adjective

1. clearly defined or identified.
"increasing the electricity supply only until it met specific development needs"

synonyms: particular, specified, fixed, set, determined, distinct, definite

Donald Trump fights every day for the ideas he ran on which are all about putting America first instead of the Deep State like in the past.

I think he actually spends most of his time watching FOX and Friends, undermining his staff, playing golf, and lying.

Did you catch the whopper he told when he visited the troops in Iraq? In case you didn't, here it is:

"You just got one of the biggest pay raises you've ever received. You haven’t gotten one in more than 10 years — more than 10 years. And we got you a big one. I got you a big one. They said: 'You know, we could make it smaller. We could make it 3 percent. We could make it 2 percent. We could make it 4 percent.' I said: 'No. Make it 10 percent. Make it more than 10 percent. Because it's been a long time. It's been more than 10 years. That's a long time. And, you know, you really put yourselves out there, and you put your lives out there. So congratulations."

He actually said that. As the Commander-in-Chief, during a visit to American troops in a combat zone. He actually stood there and told them a string of bold-faced lies.

• They hadn't gone ten years without a raise. They get one every year.

• Trump had nothing to do with the raise. It's tied increases in private sector wages.

• There was no fight over whether or not there should be a raise or how much it should be. Both things are automatic, based on previously written rules.

• The raise was not 10%, it was 2.6%

• Congress can also enact raises that exceed that rate, so if Trump had felt like it he actually could have fought for the troops to get the raise he claimed that he got them. He just didn't.

In summation, Trump demonstrated his great respect and admiration for our troops by doing absolutely nothing for them even though he could have, falsely claiming that they hadn't gotten a raise in a decade (great for morale, I imagine), pretending that he'd fought to get them a raise, taking credit for said raise even though he had nothing to do with it, and claiming that the raise was four times larger than it actually was.

Abe, Donald J. Trump is a piece of [poop].

The Democrats you support refuse to put America and the American people first like the US Constitution says they should do. Your Democrat leaders are traitors to the US Constitution they swore to uphold and defend but have totally abandoned it and instead of putting US citezens first they put illegal immigrants first.

You're so confused.

Nobody is arguing that illegal immigrants should be allowed to walk right into the country and go about their business. Nobody is arguing that illegal immigrants should have more rights than citizens. Nobody is claiming that illegal immigrants should be able to vote. The people telling you otherwise are lying to you.

Can you even give me a specific example of what you mean by "putting illegal immigrants first?" And remember, I'm asking for something specific, not the usual vague rambling about the Deep State, followed by the definition of treason and some inaccurate claims about the Constitution and the "Democrat Party." Specific, Abe. Specific.

You cannot swear to uphold and defend the US Constitution when you're sworn into office and then abandon it is a Federal crime to do so.

The problem with your argument is that the Constitution is open to interpretation. That's a feature, not a bug. The Founding Fathers weren't perfect, but they were wise enough to understand that the world would change and the nation would need to adapt, so they wrote a Constitution that had more guidelines and guiding principles than hard and fast rules. Unfortunately, you don't understand that. From where you stand, government actions you agree with are Constitutional and those that you don't support are treasonous. That's a childish, ignorant position.

Beyond that, your claim that the treason in question is failure to "put America first" is so vague and subjective that it's pretty much nonsensical. To me, putting America first means putting the needs of American citizens over the short-term profits of a few multinational corporations. Trump signed a trade deal that saddled the majority of us - you and me included - with a massive increase in the national debt and really only benefited a handful of people who already had far more than they needed. Historically, when the gap between the ultra rich and everyone else gets to be too wide nations tend to become unstable. Often they collapse into civil war. To me, anyone who screws the many to benefit the few is weakening our nation, not putting it first.

To you, by comparison, it's enough to spout racist, jingoistic nonsense and talk tough rather than truthfully. You simply don't know enough about the world as it actually is to understand that many of Trump's policies are meant to achieve short-term gains with no thought for their long-term consequences. Trump doesn't tell it like it is, he tells it like fearful, angry, ignorant people incorrectly believe it is. He probably knows better, although at this point I'm not sure.

It does not matter why you are doing it,how much money you're being paid,or being blackmailed,etc,it is a real Federal Crime. It is no different than if somebody was paying you to rob a bank you would be prosecuted for it regardless.

This is obviously true. It's also irrelevant because it's based on the assumption that a bunch of nonsensical conspiracy theories and a massive hoax are true. They're not. There is no huge, international child sex trafficking ring led by all of the politicians who don't like Trump or favor international trade deals. Mueller isn't investigating Hillary Clinton. Internment camps aren't being built because the Army isn't poised to arrest thousands of Deep State operatives. None of it is real, Abe. It's a fantasy.

And this is not just name calling like you Democrats do to us calling us racists,bigots,deplorables,etc this is real treason going on and it is a crime.

You're exhausting.

Abe, the GOP has been working hard to disenfranchise Black, Native, and Latino voters by culling them from voting rolls, closing polling places in their neighborhoods, and strong-arming get out the vote organizations. That's racist. Trump also enjoys the strong support of every White nationalist group out there. Hmmm. The GOP is also the party that tried so hard to prevent homosexuals from having the same civil rights as heterosexuals. That's bigotry.

Regarding "deplorables," that's just a quote taken out of context. Here's the whole thing:

You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of Trump's supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables. (Laughter/applause) Right? (Laughter/applause) They're racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic – Islamophobic – you name it. And unfortunately, there are people like that. And he has lifted them up. He has given voice to their websites that used to only have 11,000 people – now have 11 million. He tweets and retweets their offensive hateful mean-spirited rhetoric. Now, some of those folks – they are irredeemable, but thankfully, they are not America.

But the "other" basket – the other basket – and I know because I look at this crowd I see friends from all over America here: I see friends from Florida and Georgia and South Carolina and Texas and — as well as, you know, New York and California — but that "other" basket of people are people who feel the government has let them down, the economy has let them down, nobody cares about them, nobody worries about what happens to their lives and their futures; and they're just desperate for change. It doesn't really even matter where it comes from. They don't buy everything he says, but — he seems to hold out some hope that their lives will be different. They won't wake up and see their jobs disappear, lose a kid to heroin, feel like they're in a dead-end. Those are people we have to understand and empathize with as well.

In other words, a lot of Trump's supporters are deplorable. This is true. Trump has the unwavering support of the Klan, the White nationalists, and every racist uncle that's ever made Thanksgiving dinner uncomfortable. Every single closed-minded bigot that I personally know has a Trump sticker on his car.

But, in the second half of the quote - the part that the GOP pretends never happened and the media hardly even mentioned - Clinton also directly addressed the real, pressing concerns of the workers who felt left behind and abandoned and just wanted to be taken seriously.

So yeah, if you're driving around with a Deplorable bumper sticker then you're either ignorant of what was actually said (willfully or otherwise) or you're a proud racist, sexist, xenophobic ******* feeling empowered by the Trump White House.

[abelcainsbrother]

It is not Republican or Democrat ideas,it is Nationalism - putting America and the American people first.

Again, it would be Democratic ideas, because you're describing what you believe to be ideas that originated with the Democratic Party. Refusing to acknowledge that simple fact is idiotic.

Of course,we are transitioning away from the faiiled politics of the past but it takes time.

Which policies are those? Please be specific.

spe·cif·ic
/spəˈsifik/
adjective

1. clearly defined or identified.
"increasing the electricity supply only until it met specific development needs"

synonyms: particular, specified, fixed, set, determined, distinct, definite

Donald Trump fights every day for the ideas he ran on which are all about putting America first instead of the Deep State like in the past.

I think he actually spends most of his time watching FOX and Friends, undermining his staff, playing golf, and lying.

Did you catch the whopper he told when he visited the troops in Iraq? In case you didn't, here it is:

"You just got one of the biggest pay raises you've ever received. You haven’t gotten one in more than 10 years — more than 10 years. And we got you a big one. I got you a big one. They said: 'You know, we could make it smaller. We could make it 3 percent. We could make it 2 percent. We could make it 4 percent.' I said: 'No. Make it 10 percent. Make it more than 10 percent. Because it's been a long time. It's been more than 10 years. That's a long time. And, you know, you really put yourselves out there, and you put your lives out there. So congratulations."

He actually said that. As the Commander-in-Chief, during a visit to American troops in a combat zone. He actually stood there and told them a string of bold-faced lies.

• They hadn't gone ten years without a raise. They get one every year.

• Trump had nothing to do with the raise. It's tied increases in private sector wages.

• There was no fight over whether or not there should be a raise or how much it should be. Both things are automatic, based on previously written rules.

• The raise was not 10%, it was 2.6%

• Congress can also enact raises that exceed that rate, so if Trump had felt like it he actually could have fought for the troops to get the raise he claimed that he got them. He just didn't.

In summation, Trump demonstrated his great respect and admiration for our troops by doing absolutely nothing for them even though he could have, falsely claiming that they hadn't gotten a raise in a decade (great for morale, I imagine), pretending that he'd fought to get them a raise, taking credit for said raise even though he had nothing to do with it, and claiming that the raise was four times larger than it actually was.

Abe, Donald J. Trump is a piece of [poop].

The Democrats you support refuse to put America and the American people first like the US Constitution says they should do. Your Democrat leaders are traitors to the US Constitution they swore to uphold and defend but have totally abandoned it and instead of putting US citezens first they put illegal immigrants first.

You're so confused.

Nobody is arguing that illegal immigrants should be allowed to walk right into the country and go about their business. Nobody is arguing that illegal immigrants should have more rights than citizens. Nobody is claiming that illegal immigrants should be able to vote. The people telling you otherwise are lying to you.

Can you even give me a specific example of what you mean by "putting illegal immigrants first?" And remember, I'm asking for something specific, not the usual vague rambling about the Deep State, followed by the definition of treason and some inaccurate claims about the Constitution and the "Democrat Party." Specific, Abe. Specific.

You cannot swear to uphold and defend the US Constitution when you're sworn into office and then abandon it is a Federal crime to do so.

The problem with your argument is that the Constitution is open to interpretation. That's a feature, not a bug. The Founding Fathers weren't perfect, but they were wise enough to understand that the world would change and the nation would need to adapt, so they wrote a Constitution that had more guidelines and guiding principles than hard and fast rules. Unfortunately, you don't understand that. From where you stand, government actions you agree with are Constitutional and those that you don't support are treasonous. That's a childish, ignorant position.

Beyond that, your claim that the treason in question is failure to "put America first" is so vague and subjective that it's pretty much nonsensical. To me, putting America first means putting the needs of American citizens over the short-term profits of a few multinational corporations. Trump signed a trade deal that saddled the majority of us - you and me included - with a massive increase in the national debt and really only benefited a handful of people who already had far more than they needed. Historically, when the gap between the ultra rich and everyone else gets to be too wide nations tend to become unstable. Often they collapse into civil war. To me, anyone who screws the many to benefit the few is weakening our nation, not putting it first.

To you, by comparison, it's enough to spout racist, jingoistic nonsense and talk tough rather than truthfully. You simply don't know enough about the world as it actually is to understand that many of Trump's policies are meant to achieve short-term gains with no thought for their long-term consequences. Trump doesn't tell it like it is, he tells it like fearful, angry, ignorant people incorrectly believe it is. He probably knows better, although at this point I'm not sure.

It does not matter why you are doing it,how much money you're being paid,or being blackmailed,etc,it is a real Federal Crime. It is no different than if somebody was paying you to rob a bank you would be prosecuted for it regardless.

This is obviously true. It's also irrelevant because it's based on the assumption that a bunch of nonsensical conspiracy theories and a massive hoax are true. They're not. There is no huge, international child sex trafficking ring led by all of the politicians who don't like Trump or favor international trade deals. Mueller isn't investigating Hillary Clinton. Internment camps aren't being built because the Army isn't poised to arrest thousands of Deep State operatives. None of it is real, Abe. It's a fantasy.

And this is not just name calling like you Democrats do to us calling us racists,bigots,deplorables,etc this is real treason going on and it is a crime.

You're exhausting.

Abe, the GOP has been working hard to disenfranchise Black, Native, and Latino voters by culling them from voting rolls, closing polling places in their neighborhoods, and strong-arming get out the vote organizations. That's racist. Trump also enjoys the strong support of every White nationalist group out there. Hmmm. The GOP is also the party that tried so hard to prevent homosexuals from having the same civil rights as heterosexuals. That's bigotry.

Regarding "deplorables," that's just a quote taken out of context. Here's the whole thing:

You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of Trump's supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables. (Laughter/applause) Right? (Laughter/applause) They're racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic – Islamophobic – you name it. And unfortunately, there are people like that. And he has lifted them up. He has given voice to their websites that used to only have 11,000 people – now have 11 million. He tweets and retweets their offensive hateful mean-spirited rhetoric. Now, some of those folks – they are irredeemable, but thankfully, they are not America.

But the "other" basket – the other basket – and I know because I look at this crowd I see friends from all over America here: I see friends from Florida and Georgia and South Carolina and Texas and — as well as, you know, New York and California — but that "other" basket of people are people who feel the government has let them down, the economy has let them down, nobody cares about them, nobody worries about what happens to their lives and their futures; and they're just desperate for change. It doesn't really even matter where it comes from. They don't buy everything he says, but — he seems to hold out some hope that their lives will be different. They won't wake up and see their jobs disappear, lose a kid to heroin, feel like they're in a dead-end. Those are people we have to understand and empathize with as well.

In other words, a lot of Trump's supporters are deplorable. This is true. Trump has the unwavering support of the Klan, the White nationalists, and every racist uncle that's ever made Thanksgiving dinner uncomfortable. Every single closed-minded bigot that I personally know has a Trump sticker on his car.

But, in the second half of the quote - the part that the GOP pretends never happened and the media hardly even mentioned - Clinton also directly addressed the real, pressing concerns of the workers who felt left behind and abandoned and just wanted to be taken seriously.

So yeah, if you're driving around with a Deplorable bumper sticker then you're either ignorant of what was actually said (willfully or otherwise) or you're a proud racist, sexist, xenophobic ******* feeling empowered by the Trump White House.

Neither the republican or Democrat Party have put america and the american people first for years and years so i don't see how you can claim the America first agenda Trump ran on is Democrat ideas. The Democrat Party has lied for years and years about claiming they are going to make the rich pay their fair share and that they stick up for the litte guy,election after election they ran on these lies. Then Bernie Sanders runs on them very issues and the DNC rigged the primary for Hillary and stole the delegates away from Bernie and gave them to Hillary.Sure it was to make Hillary look moderate but it exposed the democrat Party for the liars they are.We all watched it as Bernie would win states the delegates would go to Hillary. What this did is expose the fact that the Democrats have been lying for years and years about how they are going to make the rich pay their fair share and stick up for the little guy. They proved that they never will and they have been lying for years and years and yet when taxes are cut they claim it is tax cuts for the rich. The rich owns the democrats and they are their puppets.They have not put America and the american people first for years and years and we know their policies DO NOT WORK no matter how much you are blind to see it. It is Democrat ideas that got America in the state it was in before Trump.

Meanwhile Trump truly puts America and the American people first which is why he is attacked by the media for what they call trade wars. He will not allow other countries to get the better deal when it comes to trade like they have for years and years by both Democrat and Republican administrations of the past. And this is not some new idea Trump came up with for the election as he has been complaining about other countries ripping off America in trade for 40 years.He took out a front page add in the New York Times and other newspapers in 1988 when Reagan was the President complaining about other cuntries ripping off America and the American people. Yet when Trump puts America first in trade like he is supposed to do he is attacked by the leaders of your party aand the media for starting trade wars. An example of Trump putting America first in trade deals is the fact that gas prices are now below $2.00 a gallon in the US now and it is because unlike Bush and Obama he will not allow the Saudi's to manipulate our gas prices like they did when the US provides military protection for their country. They will not get free military protection while sticking it to America. Meanwhile you are your Democrat Party put China,Mexico,etc first when it comes to trade which is treason.They are more concerned for China than America while Trump will not allow China to get the better deal in trade.
because Trump won't allow it. Obama and Bush did allow it NOT putting America first. This is just one example as their are more examples.Obama said the days of $2.00 a gallon gas are behind us which was a lie that Trump proved wrong.Obama allowed the Saudi's to manipulate our gas prices, Trump won't.

Our elected officials take on oath to uphold and defend the US Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic and yet your Democrat leaders put illegal immigrants over US citezens and refuse to protect the America people from ilegals,crminals,terrorists,drugs,child trafficking accross the border. They refuse to put the America people first and expect the laws to only apply to "WE the people of the USA". It is a lie that the Democrats don't want to allow illegals to break our laws which is why they have allowed it to happen for years and years claiming and funding a wall 4 years ago to not really doing it all for show,with no action.

It is not true that Trump and his supporters are racists like your leaders being real true traitors who have abandoned the US Constitution they swore to uphold and defend against all enemies foreign and domestic to side with foreignors when it comes to trade,immigration,etc.They are siding with foreignors which is real treason. It does not matter if it was true that racists support Trump when it does not represent what he ran on. So you are just making up lies about Trump and his supporters being racist but your Democrat leaders are TRAITORS. The difference is you're lying and I'm not.

[Philip]

[abelcainsbrother]

Ed has been hoodwinked and propagandized by the media and the Democrat Party so bad that he cannot even recognize real treason in our Government .Treason is a REAL Federal crime you cannot as a politician,President,etc run on upholding and defending the US Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic and then abandon it once you get into office. This oath is saying that you will put your life on the line and even die to defend it.It is a REAL Federal crime and anybody who supports it are accomplices to treason. Just like being an accomplice to any other crime.The only reason they are not in prison already is because of all of the corrupt Deep state judges, corrupt people in the FBI,CIA,etc so that they would just get away with their crimes. It takes time to replace these corrupt individuals which Trump and his team have been doing underneath the radar.

Yet Ed ,his Democrat Party and the media think Trump is a criminal because of the way he talks sometimes when it is not a crime.No Russia collusion,no impeachment because of a fire wall,and no unhingment from Trump that will get us into a war.Trump is not a War-mongering Neo-con and never has been.He is winding things down in the middle East bringing the troops home as can be done and yet after Obama won the Nobel piece prize went to war in the Middle East - Irag,Afghanistan,Syria,etc.Obama ran on bringing the troops home out of Irag and never even tried to once elected.

[Philip]

Not so fast!

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co ... a-46775308

[edwardmurphy]

Abe, we're all grownups here. We know that treason is really a real crime that's real. You don't have to convince us of that fact. The important question isn't "Is treason a crime?" it's "Was treason committed, and if so when and by whom?"

My position on the matter is that I don't currently know, but the combination of the Mueller investigation and the upcoming House investigations just might answer that question. Personally, I wouldn't be surprised - Trump really is that big a scumbag - but I'll make up mind when there's more evidence to weigh.

Also, I think that some of Trump's actions are criminal because that's where the evidence points. How he talks isn't a factor. You can talk like a conman and a gangster without actually being either.

I think that when you go off about how I'm brainwashed by the liberal media (which doesn't actually exist) and the Democrat Party (which isn't real either) you're projecting. You literally get your news from cranks and crackpots on Reddit and YouTube and if you've ever had a thought of your own you opted not to share it. I'm not the one being conned, Abe.

[Philip]

Edwardo, don't so easily take the ACB bait - enticing though it is!

[DBowling]

Not so fast!

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co ... a-46775308

I was happy to hear a voice of reason coming out of the administration on Syria.

Unfortunately voices of reason are often publicly squashed by Trump, even when those voices of reason are top officials in his administration.
I hope Bolton is right here.

[edwardmurphy]

Edwardo, don't so easily take the ACB bait - enticing though it is!

I know, I know...

[edwardmurphy]

I was happy to hear a voice of reason coming out of the administration on Syria.

Unfortunately voices of reason are often publicly squashed by Trump, even when those voices of reason are top officials in his administration.
I hope Bolton is right here.

I find it alarming that we're reduced to relying on John Bolton to be the voice of reason. He's a vocal proponent of regime change in Iran. As bad as the Trump Administration is, at least we're not engaged in a proxy war in Iran. Bolton would like to change that.

[Philip]

There's nothing wrong with desiring regime change in Iran AS LONG AS it doesn't involved attempting to destabilize it by creating either civil war or attacking and occupying it. Severe sanctions are good, etc. Discouraging other countries - even penalizing them - for doing business with Iran - fine. But creating a power vacuum or civil war - VERY bad!!! The people of Iran need to bring the old Mullahs' rule to an end - and we should be supportive of that. But even so, it is unlikely to occur without massive bloodshed. Believe me, the people absolutely hate their rulers - particularly the young!

[DBowling]

I was happy to hear a voice of reason coming out of the administration on Syria.

Unfortunately voices of reason are often publicly squashed by Trump, even when those voices of reason are top officials in his administration.
I hope Bolton is right here.

I find it alarming that we're reduced to relying on John Bolton to be the voice of reason. He's a vocal proponent of regime change in Iran. As bad as the Trump Administration is, at least we're not engaged in a proxy war in Iran. Bolton would like to change that.

The irony of a referring to Bolton as a "voice of reason" within the Trump Administration is not lost on me.

[abelcainsbrother]

I was happy to hear a voice of reason coming out of the administration on Syria.

Unfortunately voices of reason are often publicly squashed by Trump, even when those voices of reason are top officials in his administration.
I hope Bolton is right here.

I find it alarming that we're reduced to relying on John Bolton to be the voice of reason. He's a vocal proponent of regime change in Iran. As bad as the Trump Administration is, at least we're not engaged in a proxy war in Iran. Bolton would like to change that.

John Bolton is a Neo-con telling the media and Deep State what they want to hear,while the troops will be coming home out of Syria.Why would you trust Bolton a Neo-con? Trump is also examining bringing the troops home out of Afghanistan also.

[abelcainsbrother]

Abe, we're all grownups here. We know that treason is really a real crime that's real. You don't have to convince us of that fact. The important question isn't "Is treason a crime?" it's "Was treason committed, and if so when and by whom?"

My position on the matter is that I don't currently know, but the combination of the Mueller investigation and the upcoming House investigations just might answer that question. Personally, I wouldn't be surprised - Trump really is that big a scumbag - but I'll make up mind when there's more evidence to weigh.

Also, I think that some of Trump's actions are criminal because that's where the evidence points. How he talks isn't a factor. You can talk like a conman and a gangster without actually being either.

I think that when you go off about how I'm brainwashed by the liberal media (which doesn't actually exist) and the Democrat Party (which isn't real either) you're projecting. You literally get your news from cranks and crackpots on Reddit and YouTube and if you've ever had a thought of your own you opted not to share it. I'm not the one being conned, Abe.

How can you not know what treason is? You don't believe me? Please explain why or how it is not treason to take an oath to uphold and defend the US Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic and then abandon it once you get into office? Why are the leaders of the Democrat Party trying to send foreign aid to foreignors but will not fund a wall to protect the American people?There is no evidence of criminal actions by President Trump yet you think so because of the liberal media.What criminal actions are you talking about? Because it has been two years and there is no evidence of Russia collusion which was a lie based on a fake Russia dossier in order to get a FISA warrant that they knew was fake paid for by Clinton.The Obama admin spied on the Trump campaign just as Trump said in the beginning which was denied.This is sedition and is a crime. Trump has not declassified the FISA documents yet but when he does the truth will be revealed. So we have real treason and sedition going on which are real crimes and yet no crimes by Trump. Propaganda is real and this is why you think there is some kind of criminal behavior by Trump.You have been conned,not me.

[abelcainsbrother]

There's nothing wrong with desiring regime change in Iran AS LONG AS it doesn't involved attempting to destabilize it by creating either civil war or attacking and occupying it. Severe sanctions are good, etc. Discouraging other countries - even penalizing them - for doing business with Iran - fine. But creating a power vacuum or civil war - VERY bad!!! The people of Iran need to bring the old Mullahs' rule to an end - and we should be supportive of that. But even so, it is unlikely to occur without massive bloodshed. Believe me, the people absolutely hate their rulers - particularly the young!

I agree.