Ken: Can you prove intelligence cannot come from non intelligence?
I don't have to prove it - as it's exceptionally obvious, as such has never been observed even once. And our most intelligent thinkers and scientists have only scarcely begun to understand how some of nature's and the universe's mechanisms operate, but what we do know is these things have many massively complex components and immense sophistication in how they operate. So, for one to believe our most intelligent observers and scientists, after centuries of observations, can barely understand some of these many complex mechanisms, and yet believe a NON-intelligence can produce them - well, that is beyond absurd.
BTW, the first thing one must ask is what IS intelligence? How would any knowledgeable person define it? In a nutshell, it involves having the ability to see, perceive / think, understand, gather and seek information, strategize and design ways to further accumulate that data (or knowledge), AND to apply it, AND to measure results which can the be reprocessed per such abilities! So, an intelligent entity has the ability to constantly recognize and seek data AND to apply it - which is what wisdom is. Wisdom is more than just having intelligence, as it is the ability to APPLY knowledge.
Now, I think we can name a number of clearly non-intelligent things - and not one of them have EVER shown such abilities as in the paragraph above this one. Science sees only WHAT things do, but NO such things can create themselves. And every material thing comes from some other material thing or previous process. But why they exist and why they operate as they do, often, no one knows - beyond other causes - which are sometimes known, and sometimes not known. The scientific method of discovery all relies upon applying its methodology to prior, ongoing and observable things.
Ken: Again; can you prove intelligence and order cannot come from non intelligence?
What I challenge you is to produce just one such example of this occurring!
Ken: What is quite apparent, Philip is that you believe what you believe, not because of science or any evidence whatsoever, but only because you want to believe the God did it - and not because it’s backed by logic or any science.
In the first place, I'm arguing that SOME massive Intelligence Source is required for what came into existence at the Big Bang and beyond it - and that it is entirely illogical to believe a non-intelligence could produce it. It's Identity, however, is a separate question. As for whether it was the God I worship - that's a different question that also has examinable evidence that can reasonably and logically be assigned probabilities. One certainly does not have to have a blind faith to find God! But as for this God's mere existence - and especially the NECESSITY that some immensely intelligent Being must exist - well, the science of probabilities DOES weigh in on the odds of these many uncaused things existing either by themselves OR of non-intelligent things producing them. So, as I don't believe in magic or of massive numbers of unfathomably complex things and designs just occurring as a result of blind things with zero capabilities - well, I simply don't have that kind of faith - which is an totally UNREASONABLE type of faith - as it's not based upon ANY evidences!
