Quote William Booth

[Ged]

A friend sent me this old quote. Very insightful, don't you think? Although, probably truer of the 21st century.

“The chief danger of the 20th century will be religion without the Holy Spirit, Christianity without Christ, forgiveness without repentance, salvation without regeneration, politics without God, and heaven without hell.”

― William Booth

[Stu]

Wow, that's pretty well spot on. He had it right.
When did William Booth live?

[Fliegender]

That quote is applicable to every era, BCE and CE.

[RickD]

Wow, that's pretty well spot on. He had it right.
When did William Booth live?

1800's-early 1900's.

Booth was the founder of The Salvation Army, and preached a false gospel of continued obedience, in order to keep salvation.

[Stu]

Wow, that's pretty well spot on. He had it right.
When did William Booth live?

1800's-early 1900's.

Booth was the founder of The Salvation Army, and preached a false gospel of continued obedience, in order to keep salvation.

Well I believe Once Saved Always Saved is false doctrine, so I guess I would side with Booth.

The Bible speaks of a "falling away"; to fall away from something you have to be part of it. If OSAS was true there would be no falling away.

[RickD]

Wow, that's pretty well spot on. He had it right.
When did William Booth live?

1800's-early 1900's.

Booth was the founder of The Salvation Army, and preached a false gospel of continued obedience, in order to keep salvation.

Well I believe Once Saved Always Saved is false doctrine, so I guess I would side with Booth.

The Bible speaks of a "falling away"; to fall away from something you have to be part of it. If OSAS was true there would be no falling away.

Either that, or you misunderstand what falling away means, and think it means people can lose eternal life. Anyone who advocates against Once Saved Always Saved, cannot tell me how their theology fits with John 3:16. Whoever believes in Christ, has eternal life. Unless eternal means temporary, then your false gospel fails in light of John 3:16.

[Stu]

Wow, that's pretty well spot on. He had it right.
When did William Booth live?

1800's-early 1900's.

Booth was the founder of The Salvation Army, and preached a false gospel of continued obedience, in order to keep salvation.

Well I believe Once Saved Always Saved is false doctrine, so I guess I would side with Booth.

The Bible speaks of a "falling away"; to fall away from something you have to be part of it. If OSAS was true there would be no falling away.

Either that, or you misunderstand what falling away means, and think it means people can lose eternal life. Anyone who advocates against Once Saved Always Saved, cannot tell me how their theology fits with John 3:16. Whoever believes in Christ, has eternal life. Unless eternal means temporary, then your false gospel fails in light of John 3:16.

The mistake you are making is taking ONE verse and only using that. Jesus speaks many other times that it is present tense belief that is required, if you look up the actual Greek words.

Watch that video that I posted the other day, it's quite comprehensive.

Just as an example:

Galatians 5:19-21 New International Version (NIV)
19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

It's about habitual living. If you do something and repent thereof and try not to do it again then you go to heaven, but if you know that something is wrong and continue to sin over and over then your heart has not changed and you are not truly sorry for what you have done and, yes, you will not go to heaven.

Here it is again:

[RickD]

Stu wrote:
It's about habitual living. If you do something and repent thereof and try not to do it again then you go to heaven,...

Oh, so with your gospel, our performance is what keeps us saved. Got it!

[Stu]

Stu wrote:
It's about habitual living. If you do something and repent thereof and try not to do it again then you go to heaven,...

Oh, so with your gospel, our performance is what keeps us saved. Got it!

Quote-mine of note. Got it!

[Philip]

Stu: It's about habitual living. If you do something and repent thereof and try not to do it again then you go to heaven

Um, what if you didn't repent of something you've forgotten about? What about if you sin and a second later a lightening bolt kills you?

And the big question: WHEN, exactly, does one's salvation begin? And where?

[Stu]

Stu: It's about habitual living. If you do something and repent thereof and try not to do it again then you go to heaven

Um, what if you didn't repent of something you've forgotten about? What about if you sin and a second later a lightening bold kills you?

And the big question: WHEN, exactly, does one's salvation begin? And where?

That's why you ask for forgiveness of all your sins, not just the ones you are aware of.

Did you not read my post I made it pretty clear?? It's about habitual sin, living in continual sin knowing better. Let's say you became a Christian but then backslide and start sleeping around with women every night, even though you have asked for forgiveness of that sin. God knows your heart and your deeds.

It's just as the Bible teaches - when you believe (and ask Him into your life) that Jesus is the Son of God and that He died on the cross for our sins and ask God to forgive our sins in Jesus name.

Watch that video I posted.

[RickD]

Stu: It's about habitual living. If you do something and repent thereof and try not to do it again then you go to heaven

Um, what if you didn't repent of something you've forgotten about? What about if you sin and a second later a lightening bold kills you?

And the big question: WHEN, exactly, does one's salvation begin? And where?

That's why you ask for forgiveness of all your sins, not just the ones you are aware of.

Did you not read my post I made it pretty clear?? It's about habitual sin, living in continual sin knowing better. Let's say you became a Christian but then backslide and start sleeping around with women every night, even though you have asked for forgiveness of that sin. God knows your heart and your deeds.

It's just as the Bible teaches - when you believe (and ask Him into your life) that Jesus is the Son of God and that He died on the cross for our sins and ask God to forgive our sins in Jesus name.

Watch that video I posted.

You've butchered the gospel of Christ. You're saying that Christ's sacrifice doesn't cover all sins.

[Stu]

Stu: It's about habitual living. If you do something and repent thereof and try not to do it again then you go to heaven

Um, what if you didn't repent of something you've forgotten about? What about if you sin and a second later a lightening bold kills you?

And the big question: WHEN, exactly, does one's salvation begin? And where?

That's why you ask for forgiveness of all your sins, not just the ones you are aware of.

Did you not read my post I made it pretty clear?? It's about habitual sin, living in continual sin knowing better. Let's say you became a Christian but then backslide and start sleeping around with women every night, even though you have asked for forgiveness of that sin. God knows your heart and your deeds.

It's just as the Bible teaches - when you believe (and ask Him into your life) that Jesus is the Son of God and that He died on the cross for our sins and ask God to forgive our sins in Jesus name.

Watch that video I posted.

You've butchered the gospel of Christ. You're saying that Christ's sacrifice doesn't cover all sins.

Of course His sacrifice covers all sins, I have said that just in my very last post?! Stop putting words in my mouth.

Are you saying that you only have to ask for forgiveness of your sins ONCE and then you are forever good to go for the rest of your life? That you never have to ask for forgiveness again?????

It is you who have butchered the gospel. You take one verse and ignore a ton of other verses that expand on that verse. Grace abuse.

[Philip]

If once saved always saved is incorrect, and as EVERY person continuously sins - there are some sins we are aware of and struggle against, and others we are not aware of. So, according to Stu's belief, one would require re-saving on a daily basis. And as God hates ALL sin - then, any unforgiven sin would be enough to doom a person - even those we aren't aware of. Again, there are sins we still struggle against - but nonetheless STILL commit, as the Apostle Paul notes. But did you ever see him talking about the need to be resaved? EVER? Note when he addresses the bretheren stating he had confidence that Christ would draw them all to Him on the last day - how could he have such confidence? And how could WE have any confidence we wouldn't screw up and then have a sudden heart attack and die?

Stu, how many times must I ask you - WHERE in Scripture do you see the concept of temporary ETERNAL life, or the need to repent again and be re-saved??? All you have are circumstances of people who were intially with the brethern and later fell away from that fellowship. We are never told such people had come to a saving faith in Christ. No, such people's belief was more like the devil's - as they never had a desire to commit themselves to Jesus. They just like tire-kickers or window shoppers.

I would submit to you that some people, claiming salvation, and yet deliberately and continuously, without remorse, continue to sin some of the hallmark sins that God rages across Scripture over - it's because those are indicators of a person whom has never been saved. HOWEVER, there are others who definitely have submitted to God / Christ in sincere faith and commitment, whom, for a period, or in certain situations, fall into terrible sins, but God is nonetheless faithful to forgive and restore them - why, because He has ALREADY saved them per their previous faith and commitment.

Notice, in John 21, after the Resurrection and when Peter prior to it committed the horrific sin of denying he knew Jesus (a phrase unbelievers and pagans commonly assert, though pagans commonly do so with a different phrasing - but in John 21, while the disciples were fishing, Jesus shows up. Peter must have been freaking out - deeply ashamed (and probably fearful) as he remembered the last time he had previously seen Jesus, and His stare, upon Pete's third denial: "I do not know the man" (and then the **** crowed). So, Jesus calls them all to eat breakfast with Him. Does He admonish Peter to repent again, explain what he must supposedly do so to be "re-saved," etc? NO! There are no words from Peter as Jesus puts forth no such requirement, and restores Him by showing forgiveness and future instructions. In fact, this idea that sincere, long-time believers have sinned their way to their eternal doom - it's simply not found anywhere in the New Testament!

[Ged]

I don’t mind giving credit where credit is due, when it comes to former men of God like William Booth and Charles Spurgeon, even though one was from a Wesleyan background and the other Calvinist.