Discussions on a ranges of philosophical issues including the nature of truth and reality, personal identity, mind-body theories, epistemology, justification of beliefs, argumentation and logic, philosophy of religion, free will and determinism, etc.
Stu wrote:
Of course His sacrifice covers all sins, I have said that just in my very last post?! Stop putting words in my mouth.
You're speaking out of both sides of your mouth. You say that Jesus' sacrifice covers all sins, yet you also say his sacrifice doesn't cover "habitual" sins.
Stu wrote:
Are you saying that you only have to ask for forgiveness of your sins ONCE and then you are forever good to go for the rest of your life? That you never have to ask for forgiveness again?????
I never said that asking for forgiveness was something that we have to do, for salvation. It seems like you've also added that as a requirement for Salvation.
Stu wrote:
It is you who have butchered the gospel. You take one verse and ignore a ton of other verses that expand on that verse. Grace abuse.
I'm not basing my theology on only one verse. I'm pointing out one verse that nobody can seem to explain away, if they don't believe in OSAS. John 3:16 says that if one believes in Christ, one has(present tense) not "will have" everlasting life. So, the moment one trusts/believes in Christ, one has everlasting life. Now you need to explain how if one has everlasting life, and then one loses everlasting life, how was it everlasting if it could be lost?
Once we trust in Christ, we are spiritually reborn. We are a new creature in christ. Once one is reborn, we can't become unborn.
John 5:24 24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
Philip wrote: ↑Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:39 am
If once saved always saved is incorrect, and as EVERY person continuously sins - there are some sins we are aware of and struggle against, and others we are not aware of. So, according to Stu's belief, one would require re-saving on a daily basis. And as God hates ALL sin - then, any unforgiven sin would be enough to doom a person - even those we aren't aware of. Again, there are sins we still struggle against - but nonetheless STILL commit, as the Apostle Paul notes. But did you ever see him talking about the need to be resaved? EVER? Note when he addresses the bretheren stating he had confidence that Christ would draw them all to Him on the last day - how could he have such confidence? And how could WE have any confidence we wouldn't screw up and then have a sudden heart attack and die?
Stu, how many times must I ask you - WHERE in Scripture do you see the concept of temporary ETERNAL life, or the need to repent again and be re-saved??? All you have are circumstances of people who were intially with the brethern and later fell away from that fellowship. We are never told such people had come to a saving faith in Christ. No, such people's belief was more like the devil's - as they never had a desire to commit themselves to Jesus. They just like tire-kickers or window shoppers.
I would submit to you that some people, claiming salvation, and yet deliberately and continuously, without remorse, continue to sin some of the hallmark sins that God rages across Scripture over - it's because those are indicators of a person whom has never been saved. HOWEVER, there are others who definitely have submitted to God / Christ in sincere faith and commitment, whom, for a period, or in certain situations, fall into terrible sins, but God is nonetheless faithful to forgive and restore them - why, because He has ALREADY saved them per their previous faith and commitment.
Notice, in John 21, after the Resurrection and when Peter prior to it committed the horrific sin of denying he knew Jesus (a phrase unbelievers and pagans commonly assert, though pagans commonly do so with a different phrasing - but in John 21, while the disciples were fishing, Jesus shows up. Peter must have been freaking out - deeply ashamed (and probably fearful) as he remembered the last time he had previously seen Jesus, and His stare, upon Pete's third denial: "I do not know the man" (and then the **** crowed). So, Jesus calls them all to eat breakfast with Him. Does He admonish Peter to repent again, explain what he must supposedly do so to be "re-saved," etc? NO! There are no words from Peter as Jesus puts forth no such requirement, and restores Him by showing forgiveness and future instructions. In fact, this idea that sincere, long-time believers have sinned their way to their eternal doom - it's simply not found anywhere in the New Testament!
Stu wrote:
Of course His sacrifice covers all sins, I have said that just in my very last post?! Stop putting words in my mouth.
You're speaking out of both sides of your mouth. You say that Jesus' sacrifice covers all sins, yet you also say his sacrifice doesn't cover "habitual" sins.
Stu wrote:
Are you saying that you only have to ask for forgiveness of your sins ONCE and then you are forever good to go for the rest of your life? That you never have to ask for forgiveness again?????
I never said that asking for forgiveness was something that we have to do, for salvation. It seems like you've also added that as a requirement for Salvation.
Stu wrote:
It is you who have butchered the gospel. You take one verse and ignore a ton of other verses that expand on that verse. Grace abuse.
I'm not basing my theology on only one verse. I'm pointing out one verse that nobody can seem to explain away, if they don't believe in OSAS. John 3:16 says that if one believes in Christ, one has(present tense) not "will have" everlasting life. So, the moment one trusts/believes in Christ, one has everlasting life. Now you need to explain how if one has everlasting life, and then one loses everlasting life, how was it everlasting if it could be lost?
Once we trust in Christ, we are spiritually reborn. We are a new creature in christ. Once one is reborn, we can't become unborn.
Only when the blood runs and the shackles restrain, will the sheep then awake. When all is lost.
