Stu wrote: ↑Mon Jun 17, 2019 3:55 am
Philip, I'm going to have to disagree with much of what you said I think we are just going to have to agree to disagree on this one...
I'll leave you with this video on false grace by Dr Michael Brown with questions by Sid Roth. Watch it as time permits.
Stu,
It helps if you show Philip why he's wrong. Show him from the text, that his interpretation is wrong. Bombarding people with bible verses that you think go against eternal security, and then just posting a smiley face, and agreeing to disagree, is really not a good way to have a discussion.
It's better to focus on one passage from scripture, until there's an understanding regarding where all sides stand. Then move on to another passage from scripture.
John 5:24 24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
Stu, disagreeing on this if fine. But if you are going to make a big deal over your belief then, it makes no sense that you have no evidences in Scripture of such required re-savings ever being stated as needed, actually happening, or being encouraged. Being in sin and disobedience does NOT mean a Christian has lost their salvation. And if that were true and it matters to US - as we see Christians in sin, A) how can you know they are no longer saved? B) And how would your response be any different than it would be to one you KNOW has NEVER been saved? The fact is, you can't know any difference. You can't see into a person's mind or heart. With the point being that your obsession over this isn't warranted. Again, do you believe YOU are responsible for maintaining your own salvation? You couldn't earn it, and yet you think you can maintain it? But the Apostle Paul says Jesus maintains our salvation. And so you can't have any confidence you will enter eternal life - not if it's all up to you!
Truly, this is one of those rabbit trails that some Christians argue tooth and nail over, that the Apostle Paul says we are not to.
Philip wrote: ↑Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:31 am
Stu, disagreeing on this if fine. But if you are going to make a big deal over your belief then, it makes no sense that you have no evidences in Scripture of such required re-savings ever being stated as needed, actually happening, or being encouraged. Being in sin and disobedience does NOT mean a Christian has lost their salvation. And if that were true and it matters to US - as we see Christians in sin, A) how can you know they are no longer saved? B) And how would your response be any different than it would be to one you KNOW has NEVER been saved? The fact is, you can't know any difference. You can't see into a person's mind or heart. With the point being that your obsession over this isn't warranted. Again, do you believe YOU are responsible for maintaining your own salvation? You couldn't earn it, and yet you think you can maintain it? But the Apostle Paul says Jesus maintains our salvation. And so you can't have any confidence you will enter eternal life - not if it's all up to you!
Truly, this is one of those rabbit trails that some Christians argue tooth and nail over, that the Apostle Paul says we are not to.
Look, we've been at this before you and me on this forum and never resolved anything, so I just feel we are going around in circles once again. We are just too far apart and won't agree on pretty well anything so that's why I chose to call it quits. No offence or anything...
Only when the blood runs and the shackles restrain, will the sheep then awake. When all is lost.
Stu: Look, we've been at this before you and me on this forum and never resolved anything, so I just feel we are going around in circles once again. We are just too far apart and won't agree on pretty well anything so that's why I chose to call it quits. No offence or anything...
Stu, my point is, you've been on about an issue that has no practical examples or understandings - meaning, from our (Christians') point of view, IF your contention were true, it really wouldn't matter as far as our response being any different - because A) you can't know whether an individual had fallen out of salvation, and B) we should be encouraging ANY Christian we see fallen into sin to come back into obedience. So I don't understand your passion over the issue.
As a quick aside, when atheists talk about how God is a terrible communicator this is what we mean. You guys are all devout Christians. You're all completely sincere in your beliefs. And here you all are, espousing diametrically opposed interpretations of the same words from the same sources. And we're not talking about some small potatoes issue, either. You've come to irreconcilably different conclusions about the central theme of your shared religion.
edwardmurphy wrote: ↑Tue Jun 18, 2019 6:43 am
As a quick aside, when atheists talk about how God is a terrible communicator this is what we mean. You guys are all devout Christians. You're all completely sincere in your beliefs. And here you all are, espousing diametrically opposed interpretations of the same words from the same sources. And we're not talking about some small potatoes issue, either. You've come to irreconcilably different conclusions about the central theme of your shared religion.
John 5:24 24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
edwardmurphy wrote: ↑Tue Jun 18, 2019 6:43 am
As a quick aside, when atheists talk about how God is a terrible communicator this is what we mean. You guys are all devout Christians. You're all completely sincere in your beliefs. And here you all are, espousing diametrically opposed interpretations of the same words from the same sources. And we're not talking about some small potatoes issue, either. You've come to irreconcilably different conclusions about the central theme of your shared religion.
That's just...wow.
Two things:
1)There is EXPLICIT doctrine in which the vast majority agree and there is implicit doctrine, which is debated (rightly so)
2) Faith is NOT a dictatorship and open debate is encouraged. CHOICE Ed, Choice is the core of Christianity.
And different doesn't equal contradictory by the way.
RickD wrote: ↑Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:20 pm
Don't you realize how cheap a box of condoms is?
Condoms have been known to break. I suspect that the best birth control is his personality.
They fail 97% of the time and that is when you use them PROPERLY.
When condoms are used properly, they do not fail 97% of the time.
Where on earth did you get that statistic?
John 5:24 24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
PaulSacramento wrote: ↑Tue Jun 18, 2019 9:41 am
[Condoms] fail 97% of the time and that is when you use them PROPERLY.
Are you speaking from experience?
According to this site, condoms have a 98% success rate for avoiding pregnancy, when used correctly.
So maybe English speaking Canadians are even dumber than the French speaking Canadians?
John 5:24 24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
PaulSacramento wrote: ↑Tue Jun 18, 2019 9:41 am
[Condoms] fail 97% of the time and that is when you use them PROPERLY.
Are you speaking from experience?
According to this site, condoms have a 98% success rate for avoiding pregnancy, when used correctly.
So maybe English speaking Canadians are even dumber than the French speaking Canadians?
There you go with your Canadian stuff again! Maybe Mr Sacramento just has a really big...uh...drive shaft on his pickup truck or whatever they drive up there.
"I never said that all conservatives are stupid people but it is true that most stupid people are conservative."
-John Stuart Mill
Stu wrote: ↑Mon Jun 17, 2019 3:55 am
Philip, I'm going to have to disagree with much of what you said I think we are just going to have to agree to disagree on this one...
I'll leave you with this video on false grace by Dr Michael Brown with questions by Sid Roth. Watch it as time permits.
Stu,
It helps if you show Philip why he's wrong. Show him from the text, that his interpretation is wrong. Bombarding people with bible verses that you think go against eternal security, and then just posting a smiley face, and agreeing to disagree, is really not a good way to have a discussion.
It's better to focus on one passage from scripture, until there's an understanding regarding where all sides stand. Then move on to another passage from scripture.
You are sounding like the voice of reason..... Who are you?
Stu wrote: ↑Mon Jun 17, 2019 3:55 am
Philip, I'm going to have to disagree with much of what you said I think we are just going to have to agree to disagree on this one...
I'll leave you with this video on false grace by Dr Michael Brown with questions by Sid Roth. Watch it as time permits.
Stu,
It helps if you show Philip why he's wrong. Show him from the text, that his interpretation is wrong. Bombarding people with bible verses that you think go against eternal security, and then just posting a smiley face, and agreeing to disagree, is really not a good way to have a discussion.
It's better to focus on one passage from scripture, until there's an understanding regarding where all sides stand. Then move on to another passage from scripture.
You are sounding like the voice of reason..... Who are you?
Maybe you can explain that to Stu. Apparently, he's allergic to reason.
John 5:24 24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
How the heck did this go from my silly post about AOC and Teddy Boy, to a debate over eternal security? I suggest a new thread under an appropriate section.
I think we are just going to have to agree to disagree on this one...