Have we crossed the line yet?

[edwardmurphy]

I'm imagining you sitting in your house, 9,000 miles from the US, reading your Breitbart and Infowars and swallowing all of the lies, and I gotta tell you, Stu, it's just weird. Why are you obsessed with my country? More specifically, why are you obsessed with a consistently dishonest, easily debunked, lunatic fringe narrative about my country?

I can accept that you're an angry, fearful person who struggles with critical thinking, but it seems like you'd be obsessed with some consistently dishonest, easily debunked, lunatic fringe narrative about the country where you actually live. Aren't South African politics more relevant to you? Does South Africa not have an Alex Jones? I just don't get it...

[Stu]

I'm imagining you sitting in your house, 9,000 miles from the US, reading your Breitbart and Infowars and swallowing all of the lies, and I gotta tell you, Stu, it's just weird. Why are you obsessed with my country? More specifically, why are you obsessed with a consistently dishonest, easily debunked, lunatic fringe narrative about my country?

I can accept that you're an angry, fearful person who struggles with critical thinking, but it seems like you'd be obsessed with some consistently dishonest, easily debunked, lunatic fringe narrative about the country where you actually live. Aren't South African politics more relevant to you? Does South Africa not have an Alex Jones? I just don't get it...

LOL when all someone does is play the man and not the ball you know they have lost the argument. That's you Ed.

Why am I so interested in your country... well if WWIII was to take place, there is a high probability that America would have a role in starting it. Next is your economy, basically it's screwed and the only thing keeping the house of cards together is confidence (that i's still worth something) in the dollar, but the truth is the emperor has no clothes, and when your economy collapses the world will follow. That's for starters, there are many reasons to keep an eye on the US and having it taken over by leftist socialists would be very bad for not only the US but the world.

How do you know that I don't keep an eye on my own politics. I can and do both. And guess what I even keep an eye on other countries apart from the US!

So I take it then by your comments that you are only worried about events in the USA and not the world? Because if you were then you would be a big fat hypocrite for telling me not to have concerns over the US while you kept an eye on affairs outside your borders. But then we all know the truth is that the only reason you responded and said what you did was because you couldn't handle the truth but you still had to open your big mouth and have your say.

But I don't even know why I bothered responding to you, you're just a cardboard cutout leftist spewing leftist drivel.

[edwardmurphy]

Playing the man? Really? Stu, I've specifically refuted just about everything you've ever posted in this thread. I didn't bother with your last nugget because we've been down that path a dozen times, but if you really need to hear it then here it is again:

You have no interest in truth. You have a narrative that explains what has happened, is happening, and will happen, and your only interest is in supporting that narrative. Consequently you'll accept and broadcast any data point that works in favor of your story, and ignore everything that doesn't. For example, you're all over the story of some guy getting beaten up, supposedly for wearing a Trump hat. To you that just sums it all up.

Never mind that it's one incident, or that there were no witnesses, or that the cops are reportedly suspicious that the alleged victim actually just got in a fight and lost. Never mind that there are tens of millions of people who wear Trump hats all the time without being attacked. Never mind that there have been plenty of instances where Trump supporters engaging in unprovoked violence. Never mind the fact that it's flat out moronic to malign all liberals (or conservatives, or chefs, or yoyo enthusiasts) because a handful of liberals (or conservatives, or chefs, or yoyo enthusiasts) sometimes behave poorly, or that you engage in that idiotic practice all the time, or that I've addressed it repeatedly, or that you always respond by calling me a dumb leftist (as if that has anything to do with the validity of a rhetorical technique). Never mind that when I do "play the ball" you always respond by insulting me, rather than trying to support your claims.

And finally, never mind that yesterday a [love] right wing terrorist shot 50 people in El Paso, after posting a rant about immigrants taking all the jobs and turning Texas into a Democratic stronghold. Never mind that right wing, domestic terrorism has been on the rise for years, or that left wing, domestic terrorism is nearly nonexistent.

So yeah, you've got a great point, Stu, provided that you're willing to ignore context, history, and current events to support it.

[Stu]

Hahahahaha you're a piece of work. Twisting facts and telling half-truths as usual. As you were Ed.

P.S There was also a shooting by a leftist (Elizabeth Warren supporter) as well, but you won't see THAT on your leftist news as it doesn't fit your or their narrative. Conservative shooter - they play it all day every day. It's truly sad.

[edwardmurphy]

Hahahahaha you're a piece of work. Twisting facts and telling half-truths as usual. As you were Ed.

You often say that. You never support it. Which facts were twisted? Which truths were halves? Act like a grownup for once, and support your assertions.

P.S There was also a shooting by a leftist (Elizabeth Warren supporter) as well, but you won't see THAT on your leftist news as it doesn't fit your or their narrative. Conservative shooter - they play it all day every day. It's truly sad.

I did 30 seconds of research to check your claim, and it does appear that, in addition to being a lunatic who kept "To kill" and "To rape" lists, the Dayton shooter claimed to be a liberal and an Elizabeth Warren supporter. Now show me the evidence that his politics had anything whatsoever to do with the shooting. Spoiler alert - you can't because there's nothing whatsoever in Warren's message or in Democratic Party rhetoric rhetoric that would point a guy toward shooting up a nightclub.

The guy is Texas is also a loon, but his crime was clearly politically motivated. He specifically said that he was concerned that Mexicans were stealing all the jobs. He worried that immigration would turn Texas from red to blue. He feared creeping socialism. There's a one-to-one correlation between right wing rhetoric and the Texas shooter's stated reasons for the attack. That's right wing terrorism.

Now, I'm well aware that you're going to call this spin. I don't much care about that, since you call everything I say spin, and frankly I don't think that you have the capacity to form a nuanced opinion or recognize complexity in a political position or politicized event. You're hopeless. I'm talking to everybody else who may come across this post.

[Byblos]

Maligning liberals I could understand, conservatives I could tolerate, chefs I would encourage. But maligning yoyo enthusiasts? That's just crossing the line.

[Stu]

Hahahahaha you're a piece of work. Twisting facts and telling half-truths as usual. As you were Ed.

You often say that. You never support it. Which facts were twisted? Which truths were halves? Act like a grownup for once, and support your assertions.

P.S There was also a shooting by a leftist (Elizabeth Warren supporter) as well, but you won't see THAT on your leftist news as it doesn't fit your or their narrative. Conservative shooter - they play it all day every day. It's truly sad.

I did 30 seconds of research to check your claim, and it does appear that, in addition to being a lunatic who kept "To kill" and "To rape" lists, the Dayton shooter claimed to be a liberal and an Elizabeth Warren supporter. Now show me the evidence that his politics had anything whatsoever to do with the shooting. Spoiler alert - you can't because there's nothing whatsoever in Warren's message or in Democratic Party rhetoric rhetoric that would point a guy toward shooting up a nightclub.

The guy is Texas is also a loon, but his crime was clearly politically motivated. He specifically said that he was concerned that Mexicans were stealing all the jobs. He worried that immigration would turn Texas from red to blue. He feared creeping socialism. There's a one-to-one correlation between right wing rhetoric and the Texas shooter's stated reasons for the attack. That's right wing terrorism.

Now, I'm well aware that you're going to call this spin. I don't much care about that, since you call everything I say spin, and frankly I don't think that you have the capacity to form a nuanced opinion or recognize complexity in a political position or politicized event. You're hopeless. I'm talking to everybody else who may come across this post.

Really quite sad. You're completely blind to anything the left does that is wrong (the Democrats dangerous rhetoric and name-calling aimed at Trump, Republicans and his supporters, you really think that doesn't rile up Democrat supporters and or the leftist crazies......) while always seeing the right in a distorted view. Sad really.
And the bullcrap that the left is somehow sweet and innocent and not linked to these sort of crimes is just pathetic on your part - remember that guy who tried to kill Republicans at a baseball game, yeah that guy I'm guessing was just a little misinformed in your opinion right. Not that big a deal.

[edwardmurphy]

Maligning liberals I could understand, conservatives I could tolerate, chefs I would encourage. But maligning yoyo enthusiasts? That's just crossing the line.

You don't like chefs? I've only met a couple, but they've been okay.

And back to Stu...

Really quite sad. You're completely blind to anything the left does that is wrong (the Democrats dangerous rhetoric and name-calling aimed at Trump, Republicans and his supporters, you really think that doesn't rile up Democrat supporters and or the leftist crazies......) while always seeing the right in a distorted view. Sad really.

Stu, I've never claimed that no liberal has ever committed a violent act. Obviously some of them have. What I've consistently said is that the fact that a few liberals have committed violent acts does not indicate that the entire American political left has lost its collective mind. That's your position, endlessly repeated and endlessly stupid.

Furthermore, while it's not too difficult to find instances of violence by liberals (but not so easy that right wing pundits never have to fabricate them), they're almost always petty, reciprocal, or both. When Antifa brawls with Neo Nazis that's not left wing violence, it's a brawl between extremists from opposite ends of the political spectrum. When a drunk college kid slaps the MAGA hat off the head of a guy at a burger joint it's inappropriate, but it's tough to make a serious argument that it's truly a big deal, much less evidence of persecution. What you almost never see is angry liberals committing murder or terrorist attacks. That's a hallmark of right wing violence.

Think I'm full of crap? Fine It should be no trouble to prove me wrong. Find me some examples of carnage, devastation, and mass murder carried out by American liberals. You might be able to find a handful, but I guarantee that I can find way, way more examples of right wing violence than you can find of left wing violence.

Come on, Stu. Grow a pair. Put it to the test. Prove me wrong.

And the bullcrap that the left is somehow sweet and innocent and not linked to these sort of crimes is just pathetic on your part - remember that guy who tried to kill Republicans at a baseball game, yeah that guy I'm guessing was just a little misinformed in your opinion right. Not that big a deal.

The guy that shot up the baseball game was an angry liberal who engaged in violence for political reasons. Whether or not he was misinformed about anything isn't relevant. Not everyone on the left is sweet and innocent.

Here's where it falls apart, though - for you this is compelling evidence that the left is picking on the right. Except I can easily find ten examples of right wing nutjobs committing acts that are just as bad or worse. Reality doesn't fit your narrative.

[Philip]

Nutjob loonies who engage in violence are found with a spectrum of political beliefs. So when ANYONE decides their pollitical or other beliefs justify murder and mayhem against innocents - well, does it really matter what their political beliefs are?

[PaulSacramento]

Crazy people do crazy things, stupid people, do stupid things.
I don't think that one political party has a monopoly on crazy and stupid.
That said, far right extremists to tend to be loners and that leads them to doing more things like this rather than the far left extremists that tend to "huddle in masses" like Antifa and BLM.

[edwardmurphy]

Interesting point, although I wouldn't call BLM far left extremists.

[Philip]

SOME members of BLM certainly are extremists. Many are merely misguided.

[edwardmurphy]

Some are extremists and some are probably misguided, but I think that the majority simply feel like Black lives don't especially matter in the United States, or at least that Black lives matter a good deal less than White lives, or Blue lives. There's plenty of data supporting their position.

[Philip]

Ed: Some are extremists and some are probably misguided, but I think that the majority simply feel like Black lives don't especially matter in the United States, or at least that Black lives matter a good deal less than White lives, or Blue lives. There's plenty of data supporting their position.

Percentage-wise, as a race, I can guarantee you there are just as many blacks that hate whites as there are in the inverse. And if the societal factors, power structure and populations numbers were reversed, you'd see precisely the same levels of oppression / repression - and that would be true of ANY race that is in the power and majority vs. the minority race. Because this is a terrible human trait and not race-specific one. And whenever people care more about the abuse of those who share their own racial identity far more than they do when those of other races suffer the same type of treatment, then they are seriously misguided. And many such people wrongly tend to think their own race is morally superior to the majority societal race. And so, this is, sadly, merely the history of mankind around the world!

Again, EVERY society's racial minority - especially if the majority race or races make up much larger percentages of the population - will receive more negative treatment because it's a matter of numbers. And thus the wrongful perception often is that the majority race has a much lager PERCENTAGE of inherent racism than of the minority's race. As well, WHATEVER type of majority - doesn't have to be a race - those in the minority will always experience more abuse or hostility - again, a matter of numbers and the bad tendecies of human nature.

And groups that strongly self-identify along racial lines will often attract lots of racists or whatever types of haters - and this is true no matter the race or nationality involved.

Notice why Martin Luther King was so successful and compelling to his cause: He didn't frame civil rights as an us-vs.-them cause. He wanted ALL Americans to come together against societal wrongs - and that touched hearts across the racial spectrum!

[PaulSacramento]

Some are extremists and some are probably misguided, but I think that the majority simply feel like Black lives don't especially matter in the United States, or at least that Black lives matter a good deal less than White lives, or Blue lives. There's plenty of data supporting their position.

Black lives matter even less to other black people, according to the stats.
To state that black lives don't matter in the states because black people get killed means that it is also correct to state that black lives don't matter to black people since more blacks are killed by other blacks than anyone else.

Blanket statements are pointless.

You had a black president for 8 years with a majority for Pete's sake.