Rejection :(

[Nicki]

I've just had a sort of rejection today - the feelings I had couldn't really be acted upon anyway and I needed to know the truth, but some of it was still tough. Like when the other person said it was getting annoying how I was acting. One good thing was when I said I just wanted to be friends (well, we can't be more than friends) and he said, 'good'. I was kind of expecting a rejection of the idea we could be friends at that point - having said that, we're doing a course together a couple of days a week so that's the basis for our friendship. Now we've got three-quarters of the year left to form a good friendship - that's what I'm hoping for.

It would be really nice to be actually valued as a person by someone I value - usually I think I'm good friends or something with someone and then it turns out I don't mean much to them. I'm not the most outgoing and fun person (some of the others on our course are more than me), but I can be quite friendly and I try to be kind and so on. I was feeling I didn't even have a good friend to talk to about today, so here I am, but I might get in touch with someone from church. It just might be hard to tell them the details since I'm married. Anyway, it could have been worse, but I was hoping we were going to have a better talk than him saying the 'annoying' thing and then telling me to stop talking about it - I barely got in the comment about just wanting to be friends.

[Storyteller]

Write him a letter, don't give it to him but it might help to write it. Say what you need to say. It helps me anyway, just an idea.

And nicki.... you did the right thing x

[Philip]

I have found that CLOSE friendships with the opposite sex is nearly impossible. And I used to have such friendships. But over time, I realized that someone always gets the wrong idea - even with the best intentions that one's intentions are merely platonic and innocent. And it might be one's spouse - or their spouse or significant other, that becomes awkward or uncomfortable. And, ESPECIALLY, friendships with opposite-sex persons one is very attracted to can be very dangerous. Now, casual friendships within non-private contexts can be just fine (like with someone you meet in a course, and as always surrounded by others). But just don't go off alone to dinner or wherever with someone of the opposite sex. Does that seem extreme? Well, is protecting one's marriage not important enough to have strict rules? Few Christians seek out an affair, but a close friendship can easily morph into one - particularly if one is having difficulties at home, or you happen to fine a friend who has certain qualities you wish your wife had. Or the friend doesn't have a few negative qualities that you feel your wife does. Dangerous!

[Nicki]

Write him a letter, don't give it to him but it might help to write it. Say what you need to say. It helps me anyway, just an idea.

And nicki.... you did the right thing x

Thanks - I might do that. It helped to write it down here anyway.

[Nicki]

I have found that CLOSE friendships with the opposite sex is nearly impossible. And I used to have such friendships. But over time, I realized that someone always gets the wrong idea - even with the best intentions that one's intentions are merely platonic and innocent. And it might be one's spouse - or their spouse or significant other, that becomes awkward or uncomfortable. And, ESPECIALLY, friendships with opposite-sex persons one is very attracted to can be very dangerous. Now, casual friendships within non-private contexts can be just fine (like with someone you meet in a course, and as always surrounded by others). But just don't go off alone to dinner or wherever with someone of the opposite sex. Does that seem extreme? Well, is protecting one's marriage not important enough to have strict rules? Few Christians seek out an affair, but a close friendship can easily morph into one - particularly if one is having difficulties at home, or you happen to fine a friend who has certain qualities you wish your wife had. Or the friend doesn't have a few negative qualities that you feel your wife does. Dangerous!

That's very true in general. I'm not planning on staying in my marriage forever (the balance tipped last year and I realised I really didn't want to put up with the garbage permanently) but I have to stick it out for now and I don't want to have any affairs in the meantime. I would like to stay in touch with this guy (well, I've got less enthusiasm for that right now than I have for most of the course so far) but we'll have to see what happens. I thought I was well on my way to being a friend he wanted to keep, even if we didn't have time in the future to see much of each other, but after today I'm doubtful about that. We have most of the year to go though.

[Philip]

Nicki, you clearly have romantic ideas about this fellow - but yet you're still married. Pursuing ANY kind of romantic notions while you are married is completely wrong! Period. Meanwhile, have you gone into CHRISTIAN counseling with your husband? Is he a Christian?

[Nessa]

I feel like I am missing something?

Did he make a pass at you? And how was the way you were acting annoying to him? And do you feel like he didn't want to be more than friends and felt rejected? Even though you couldn't act upon it?

Marriage can be extremely difficult but I pray you guys will find a way even if it seems like there is no way.

[Nicki]

Nicki, you clearly have romantic ideas about this fellow - but yet you're still married. Pursuing ANY kind of romantic notions while you are married is completely wrong! Period. Meanwhile, have you gone into CHRISTIAN counseling with your husband? Is he a Christian?

Well, I can't help the way I feel (and neither can he, of course), but I'm not wanting to pursue anything romantic - that can't happen even if he was still interested. I don't think my husband really is a Christian - I think he's just gone along with it. I've been facing the fact that I never really liked him - I was just so keen to get married and have kids, and I didn't even think in terms of not liking back then; I thought I could get along with anyone as long as they were prepared to be caring and discuss problems reasonably, but he wasn't a lot of the time. So I've gradually gone from thinking, 'how can I get him to behave better?' to 'I've had enough.' I don't know if it was a mistake as such marrying him - maybe it was meant to be for that time (and probably will have to be for a bit longer) - but meeting this other guy has really made me want to eventually find someone who I actually love and who loves me. Speaking of counselling, he sees a psychologist sometimes because of his depression and I'm thinking I'll suggest he asks for conflict resolution skills - I don't know what they've been talking about so far but I don't think it's that.

[Nicki]

I feel like I am missing something?

Did he make a pass at you? And how was the way you were acting annoying to him? And do you feel like he didn't want to be more than friends and felt rejected? Even though you couldn't act upon it?

Marriage can be extremely difficult but I pray you guys will find a way even if it seems like there is no way.

Yes, I was a bit vague - basically I saw him on the orientation day for the course and something drew me to him; he's not really conventionally good-looking but he was one of the few older students like me. I noticed he didn't have a wedding ring (while I did ) but it turned out later he wasn't single. We got put into the same group and got to talk on the first day; I grabbed the kitchen bench next to him and we've been working next to each other and helping each other since. I think he knew by how I looked at him when we actually met that I was attracted to him, then on the second week or something he dried my dishes for me when I was a bit behind and I touched his arm and thanked him.

The next day I helped him with some theory on the computer he was stuck on, which he seemed very touched by, then in the kitchen he was pretty affectionate as we did things together. I was very happy that night, feeling I was important to him and thinking we were always going to be friends at least, but then we had the rest of the week not going to the course (apart from one session we did at different times) and I started thinking of problems that could arise.

Back there on Monday however he was acting friendly but normal, which basically carried on for a few weeks until I said I missed what was happening that day (the affection). He was quite nice about it, saying he was very happily partnered but was flattered about my interest. We carried on; I was enjoying just doing the course with him but ended up getting too affectionate, especially the week before last when I'd been having a tough time at home. People have been getting pretty friendly on the course and hugs and things have not been unusual, but I guess he thought I was being too intense.

So last week he seemed to be avoiding me, apart from just helping each other in the kitchen, and made a quick getaway at the end of the day, as if he was worried I'd hug him goodbye again. When I asked him about it yesterday is when the conversation I first posted about happened. So I'm a totally pathetic idiot and need to grow up and not be so needy or something. At least the guy across the bench from me in the kitchen is a pretty extroverted jokey young man and we've been having some fun - he called me his best friend the other day because I usually clean his cooktop for him along with mine.

[Nessa]

I feel like I am missing something?

Did he make a pass at you? And how was the way you were acting annoying to him? And do you feel like he didn't want to be more than friends and felt rejected? Even though you couldn't act upon it?

Marriage can be extremely difficult but I pray you guys will find a way even if it seems like there is no way.

Yes, I was a bit vague - basically I saw him on the orientation day for the course and something drew me to him; he's not really conventionally good-looking but he was one of the few older students like me. I noticed he didn't have a wedding ring (while I did ) but it turned out later he wasn't single. We got put into the same group and got to talk on the first day; I grabbed the kitchen bench next to him and we've been working next to each other and helping each other since. I think he knew by how I looked at him when we actually met that I was attracted to him, then on the second week or something he dried my dishes for me when I was a bit behind and I touched his arm and thanked him.

The next day I helped him with some theory on the computer he was stuck on, which he seemed very touched by, then in the kitchen he was pretty affectionate as we did things together. I was very happy that night, feeling I was important to him and thinking we were always going to be friends at least, but then we had the rest of the week not going to the course (apart from one session we did at different times) and I started thinking of problems that could arise.

Back there on Monday however he was acting friendly but normal, which basically carried on for a few weeks until I said I missed what was happening that day (the affection). He was quite nice about it, saying he was very happily partnered but was flattered about my interest. We carried on; I was enjoying just doing the course with him but ended up getting too affectionate, especially the week before last when I'd been having a tough time at home. People have been getting pretty friendly on the course and hugs and things have not been unusual, but I guess he thought I was being too intense.

So last week he seemed to be avoiding me, apart from just helping each other in the kitchen, and made a quick getaway at the end of the day, as if he was worried I'd hug him goodbye again. When I asked him about it yesterday is when the conversation I first posted about happened. So I'm a totally pathetic idiot and need to grow up and not be so needy or something. At least the guy across the bench from me in the kitchen is a pretty extroverted jokey young man and we've been having some fun - he called me his best friend the other day because I usually clean his cooktop for him along with mine.

I feel like you could be playing with fire.

And I put no confidence in the flesh. Like saying 'I know I'm on a diet so it's ok the chocolate is in the kitchen. I can keep seeing it, and touch it, even smell it...'

Next thing you know, there's an empty wrapper.

Either get rid of the chocolate best you can or find someone who you can be accountable to.

Hearts are so easily led astray.

[Nessa]

I think anyone who struggles with getting their emotional needs can sympathise So don't mean to sound harsh etc but if he had kept the affection up, chances are it would naturally escalate. And it's hard to see where to draw the line because it becomes blurred

[Philip]

Nicki, the key to your husband's heart is through Christ - he won't know how or why to love until He knows the love of Jesus! Show him love, even when he doesn't deserve it. And you will have to depend upon God to do that. And are you in a good church with mature Christians - particularly one that does small groups. As that is an excellent opportunity he can be influenced by and learn what Christianity really is, and what Jesus offers him. Just going to church or sitting in a pew allows for anonymity and a lack of accountability. You'll never know until you've sincerely made an effort in this area. And if you are in a church that has no impact on him (or you) - start seriously looking for (and investigating) others. I prayerfully encourage you to not just abandon him. Jesus can fill the gaps you TRULY need right now. So often people delude themself to thinking those gaps can be met by another person.

BTW, people often think they will change partners and THEN it will magically be all better. But they often run into the very same challenges and problems, and worse. ALL marriages, even the best of them, have rocky spells - sometimes long ones. And only over serious abuse, abandonment, or adultery are we free to divorce and remarry. And all single people looking for a spouse - the first thing they need to know is whether or not someone that catches their interest is truly a Christian. Two Christians, understanding their status before God, and what He wants for them, leaning on Him for their issues - they can endure obstacles and thrive. But unequally yoked is a disaster that no romantic attraction will put off for long!

[Nicki]

I feel like you could be playing with fire.

And I put no confidence in the flesh. Like saying 'I know I'm on a diet so it's ok the chocolate is in the kitchen. I can keep seeing it, and touch it, even smell it...'

Next thing you know, there's an empty wrapper.

Either get rid of the chocolate best you can or find someone who you can be accountable to.

Hearts are so easily led astray.

Thanks - well, he's made it clear he's not interested anyway, and we've got the rest of the course to do together. I don't really like getting rid of the things in life which make me happy, like chocolate! I feel pretty sad, hurt etc right now and I think it's going to be tough for a while but hopefully it will end up OK. We had a theory session today and he greeted me when he came in, which was nice. There's this young woman who often shares her coffee with him in the morning (pours some into one of the cups we use for soup) and they often have a squeeze or a pat or something - my plan if they do again is to say (light-heartedly) 'it's fine she can do that, but why can't I too?' (That's how immature I am, but too bad.)

[Nicki]

Nicki, the key to your husband's heart is through Christ - he won't know how or why to love until He knows the love of Jesus! Show him love, even when he doesn't deserve it. And you will have to depend upon God to do that. And are you in a good church with mature Christians - particularly one that does small groups. As that is an excellent opportunity he can be influenced by and learn what Christianity really is, and what Jesus offers him. Just going to church or sitting in a pew allows for anonymity and a lack of accountability. You'll never know until you've sincerely made an effort in this area. And if you are in a church that has no impact on him (or you) - start seriously looking for (and investigating) others. I prayerfully encourage you to not just abandon him. Jesus can fill the gaps you TRULY need right now. So often people delude themself to thinking those gaps can be met by another person.

BTW, people often think they will change partners and THEN it will magically be all better. But they often run into the very same challenges and problems, and worse. ALL marriages, even the best of them, have rocky spells - sometimes long ones. And only over serious abuse, abandonment, or adultery are we free to divorce and remarry. And all single people looking for a spouse - the first thing they need to know is whether or not someone that catches their interest is truly a Christian. Two Christians, understanding their status before God, and what He wants for them, leaning on Him for their issues - they can endure obstacles and thrive. But unequally yoked is a disaster that no romantic attraction will put off for long!

Thank you for those thoughts. I have struggled to always show him love - mainly I don't want him to think it's OK to be uncaring. We've been part of a few churches and he even went to a small group at one because he was asked by the leader of it, whom he liked, but he hasn't been interested in joining another one. He's hardly been to church lately because he's been going on these runs on Sunday morning instead, but I can't make him - he knew I thought it was best to go to church most weeks.

I'm not sure how I can let Jesus fill gaps for me - or do you mean he's already filled the gaps I actually need filled? I'd like to think so in a way because I find it pretty hard to experience the reality of a relationship with God when other humans are much easier to see, hear and so on. You have a point about unequal yoke - that's what I think it's been in my marriage; I don't think my husband sees Christianity as anything more than going to church (sometimes) and doing the odd good deed. I doubt I'm going to be changing partners if I leave him - I had enough trouble finding someone when I was young and it's hard to imagine it being better now I'm middle-aged! I might make use of a Christian dating site, though - I didn't even have internet when I was single

[Nessa]

I feel like you could be playing with fire.

And I put no confidence in the flesh. Like saying 'I know I'm on a diet so it's ok the chocolate is in the kitchen. I can keep seeing it, and touch it, even smell it...'

Next thing you know, there's an empty wrapper.

Either get rid of the chocolate best you can or find someone who you can be accountable to.

Hearts are so easily led astray.

Thanks - well, he's made it clear he's not interested anyway, and we've got the rest of the course to do together. I don't really like getting rid of the things in life which make me happy, like chocolate! I feel pretty sad, hurt etc right now and I think it's going to be tough for a while but hopefully it will end up OK. We had a theory session today and he greeted me when he came in, which was nice. There's this young woman who often shares her coffee with him in the morning (pours some into one of the cups we use for soup) and they often have a squeeze or a pat or something - my plan if they do again is to say (light-heartedly) 'it's fine she can do that, but why can't I too?' (That's how immature I am, but too bad.)

I am not saying get rid of all things that make you happy but rather know your own weaknesses and limitations.

An extreme case would be to quit the course which might be totally appropriate in some cases but it could be just getting 'rid' of the affectionate touches (when you have a romantic attachment) etc and focusing your attention elsewhere if that works.

And it's not always appropriate or wise to rid yourself of something completely. We have to find a way to be in this world but not of it. That's when accountability could be important.

We are all kids sometimes as far as immaturity goes.

I've had my own kids complain about not getting something other kids might but I think in the end they come to realise that not getting it is better though it might bring them temporary pleasure e.g unlimited WiFi. Even if they don't understand now, they will one day.