Convinced yet?

[DBowling]

The call to Ukraine's president - an interesting perspective: https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/gregg-j ... -heres-why

Jarrett too often parrots Trumpian misinformation for me to take him terribly seriously.

Did you see the Napolitano (also from Fox News) videos I posted earlier?
Napolitano lays it out there... and we haven't seen everything in the whistleblower complaint yet.

I'm also interested in what comes out of the mysterious meeting with the State Department IG that will take place this afternoon.

[Philip]

DB, that article lays out some clear facts.

[DBowling]

DB, that article lays out some clear facts.

I'll take a look

From Napolitano
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cs5FkaWbI8s

[DBowling]

DB, that article lays out some clear facts.

I'll take a look

ok...
Jarrett continues to perpetuate the false Biden narrative which immediately tells us something about Jarrett's credibility.
Also Napolitano directly addresses how Trump committed “treason, bribery or other high crimes and misdemeanors.” in his videos.

And Jarrett's rhetoric in his opinion piece is absurd.
"In their delusive demands for the impeachment"
"The usual gaggle of misanthropes like Democratic Reps."
This is the kind of nonsense that we hear repeatedly out of Trump and his loyal followers... like Jarrett.
So this opinion piece does nothing to convince me that Jarrett is acting as anything other than a Trump puppet.

In all fairness, I do agree 100% with this comment from Jarrett
"Americans deserve to learn the truth of what happened."

[RickD]

DB, that article lays out some clear facts.

I'll take a look

ok...
Jarrett continues to perpetuate the false Biden narrative which immediately tells us something about Jarrett's credibility.
Also Napolitano directly addresses how Trump committed “treason, bribery or other high crimes and misdemeanors.” in his videos.

And Jarrett's rhetoric in his opinion piece is absurd.
"In their delusive demands for the impeachment"
"The usual gaggle of misanthropes like Democratic Reps."
This is the kind of nonsense that we hear repeatedly out of Trump and his loyal followers... like Jarrett.
So this opinion piece does nothing to convince me that Jarrett is acting as anything other than a Trump puppet.

In all fairness, I do agree 100% with this comment from Jarrett
"Americans deserve to learn the truth of what happened."

So,

You believe Trump is guilty of bribery, but Biden isn't?

[DBowling]

DB, that article lays out some clear facts.

I'll take a look

ok...
Jarrett continues to perpetuate the false Biden narrative which immediately tells us something about Jarrett's credibility.
Also Napolitano directly addresses how Trump committed “treason, bribery or other high crimes and misdemeanors.” in his videos.

And Jarrett's rhetoric in his opinion piece is absurd.
"In their delusive demands for the impeachment"
"The usual gaggle of misanthropes like Democratic Reps."
This is the kind of nonsense that we hear repeatedly out of Trump and his loyal followers... like Jarrett.
So this opinion piece does nothing to convince me that Jarrett is acting as anything other than a Trump puppet.

In all fairness, I do agree 100% with this comment from Jarrett
"Americans deserve to learn the truth of what happened."

So,

You believe Trump is guilty of bribery, but Biden isn't?

That's what all the evidence that I'm aware of says, so I will go with the evidence.
If the evidence changes then my opinion will follow suit.

The attempt at equivalence between Trump and Biden is just more Trump misinformation.

[RickD]

DB, that article lays out some clear facts.

I'll take a look

ok...
Jarrett continues to perpetuate the false Biden narrative which immediately tells us something about Jarrett's credibility.
Also Napolitano directly addresses how Trump committed “treason, bribery or other high crimes and misdemeanors.” in his videos.

And Jarrett's rhetoric in his opinion piece is absurd.
"In their delusive demands for the impeachment"
"The usual gaggle of misanthropes like Democratic Reps."
This is the kind of nonsense that we hear repeatedly out of Trump and his loyal followers... like Jarrett.
So this opinion piece does nothing to convince me that Jarrett is acting as anything other than a Trump puppet.

In all fairness, I do agree 100% with this comment from Jarrett
"Americans deserve to learn the truth of what happened."

So,

You believe Trump is guilty of bribery, but Biden isn't?

That's what all the evidence that I'm aware of says, so I will go with the evidence.
If the evidence changes then my opinion will follow suit.

The attempt at equivalence between Trump and Biden is just more Trump misinformation.

As knowledgeable about this subject as you are, for you to say that you don't think Biden committed bribery, kinda surprises me.

[DBowling]

The attempt at equivalence between Trump and Biden is just more Trump misinformation.

As knowledgeable about this subject as you are, for you to say that you don't think Biden committed bribery, kinda surprises me.

Here's a link I posted earlier that discusses the Biden situation and the lies and misinformation that Trump and his misinformation machine have been perpetuating.
https://www.factcheck.org/2019/09/trump ... d-ukraine/

[RickD]

The attempt at equivalence between Trump and Biden is just more Trump misinformation.

As knowledgeable about this subject as you are, for you to say that you don't think Biden committed bribery, kinda surprises me.

Here's a link I posted earlier that discusses the Biden situation and the lies and misinformation that Trump and his misinformation machine have been perpetuating.
https://www.factcheck.org/2019/09/trump ... d-ukraine/

I had no idea about the idea that Biden's son was being prosecuted.

I'm talking about Biden threatening to withhold money, if the guy wasn't fired. That is corroborated by the link you posted. There's no evidence that Biden's son had any experience that would warrant that high paying position. So basically, we have a "I'll give you a huge sum of money, if you pay my son some of it" deal.

I realize this kinda stuff goes on all the time. But if you're calling out Trump on something you think is wrong, be consistent.

[DBowling]

The attempt at equivalence between Trump and Biden is just more Trump misinformation.

As knowledgeable about this subject as you are, for you to say that you don't think Biden committed bribery, kinda surprises me.

Here's a link I posted earlier that discusses the Biden situation and the lies and misinformation that Trump and his misinformation machine have been perpetuating.
https://www.factcheck.org/2019/09/trump ... d-ukraine/

I had no idea about the idea that Biden's son was being prosecuted.

He never was... that's just part of Trump's lies and misinformation.

I'm talking about Biden threatening to withhold money, if the guy wasn't fired. That is corroborated by the link you posted. There's no evidence that Biden's son had any experience that would warrant that high paying position. So basically, we have a "I'll give you a huge sum of money, if you pay my son some of it" deal.

I realize this kinda stuff goes on all the time. But if you're calling out Trump on something you think is wrong, be consistent.

I am being very consistent...
To quote Judge Napolitano from Fox News

When the President asks a foreign government, the head of a foreign government, to do something to help his campaign; when the President adds a condition to the receipt of foreign funds that Congress didn’t add; and when that condition benefits the President’s campaign and not American foreign policy, the President has arguably walked into the area of bribery. And that is an impeachable offense.

I'm unaware of any evidence that Biden has engaged in the behavior that Napolitano describes as impeachable behavior above.

Trump and his allies are just trying to distract from Trump's behavior by asserting a false equivalence between what Trump allegedly did for his own political benefit and what Biden did as part of US foreign policy.

[RickD]

RickD wrote:
I had no idea about the idea that Biden's son was being prosecuted.

DBowling wrote:
He never was... that's just part of Trump's lies and misinformation.

What I meant, was that since I didn't know about it, it was irrelevant to my point.


The company that Hunter Biden worked for, which paid him up to $50k a month, was being investigated for corruption. VP Biden threatened to withhold money if the guy investigating his son's company wasn't fired. There's no evidence that Hunter Biden had any experience that would warrant a $50k per month position, other than his experience being the VP's son.

This kinda crap may go on all the time, but it's still not right.

Call a spade a spade.

Joe Biden got his son a job for his personal benefit. A job that he had no business having.

[edwardmurphy]

I'm talking about Biden threatening to withhold money, if the guy wasn't fired. That is corroborated by the link you posted. So basically, we have a "I'll give you a huge sum of money, if you pay my son some of it" deal.

Barack Obama threatened to withhold aid if the guy wasn't fired for corruption. Yes, Biden said the words, but the instructions and the authority came from the Obama Administration. He was engaging in foreign policy at the behest of the President. Ukrainian reformers agreed that endemic corruption in the prosecutor's office was a huge problem that needed to be addressed. The EU and the IMF were pressuring the Ukrainian government to clean up corruption at the same time.

It wasn't the Joe Biden Show.

There's no evidence that Biden's son had any experience that would warrant that high paying position.

I don't know about that.

Hunter Biden was a Senior Vice President at MBNA America, co-founded a lobbying firm, served on the Board of Directors of Amtrak, co-founded an investment firm, worked as an attorney, and co-founded two venture capital firms. I'm not in HR, but a lot of that experience seems like it would be applicable for a position on the board of an oil and gas company.

So sure, he was getting very well paid and I'm sure that his last name was a part of the reason he got the job, but you make it sound like somebody from Burisma Holdings found him tending bar in Des Moines and decided to do Joe Biden a favor. That's not the case.

So basically, we have a "I'll give you a huge sum of money, if you pay my son some of it" deal.

Only there's no evidence that that ever happened.

It's also beside the point. No amount of "What about Joe Biden" can change the fact that Trump got caught trying to get a foreign government to help him win a US election.

[RickD]

I'm talking about Biden threatening to withhold money, if the guy wasn't fired. That is corroborated by the link you posted. So basically, we have a "I'll give you a huge sum of money, if you pay my son some of it" deal.

Barack Obama threatened to withhold aid if the guy wasn't fired for corruption. Yes, Biden said the words, but the instructions and the authority came from the Obama Administration. He was engaging in foreign policy at the behest of the President. Ukrainian reformers agreed that endemic corruption in the prosecutor's office was a huge problem that needed to be addressed. The EU and the IMF were pressuring the Ukrainian government to clean up corruption at the same time.

It wasn't the Joe Biden Show.

There's no evidence that Biden's son had any experience that would warrant that high paying position.

I don't know about that.

Hunter Biden was a Senior Vice President at MBNA America, co-founded a lobbying firm, served on the Board of Directors of Amtrak, co-founded an investment firm, worked as an attorney, and co-founded two venture capital firms. I'm not in HR, but a lot of that experience seems like it would be applicable for a position on the board of an oil and gas company.

So sure, he was getting very well paid and I'm sure that his last name was a part of the reason he got the job, but you make it sound like somebody from Burisma Holdings found him tending bar Des Moines and decided to do Joe Biden a favor.

So basically, we have a "I'll give you a huge sum of money, if you pay my son some of it" deal.

Only there's no evidence that that ever happened.

It's also beside the point. No amount of "What about Joe Biden" can change the fact that Trump got caught trying to get a foreign government to help him win a US election.

You are so inconsistent. The same kind of stuff you call evidence against Trump, you ignore when it comes to Biden.

All I ask is that you call a spade, a spade. Wrong is wrong, even if it's not Trump.

You're starting to sound like Stu. Only the opposing side does any wrong. When someone on the side you associate more with does wrong, you suddenly become naive.

[abelcainsbrother]

Napolitano is being dishonest.I'll explain why,President Trump is being accused of extorting Ukraine into opening an investigation into Biden's son by threatening to withhold military aid from his phone call with the Ukraine President. But as you all read the transcript you all read,I posted,Trump never extorted Ukraine,nor threatened to withhold military aid as has been accused. It is Biden that we have on tape admitting he extorted Ukraine that is the one guilty of what they are accusing of President Trump of.
Plus Napolitano is ignoring the video of Biden while accusing Trump based on a known lie.Trump is not guilty of what he has been accused of,instead Napolitano makes the case that Trump tried to blackmail the Ukraine President waiting to see if he investigates Biden's son.This is not what has been accused of President Trump,and there is no evidence nor accusation of blackmail,etc.Plus the Ukraine President has said that President Trump did not try to extort or force him as has been accused. So no evidence only hear-say.

Napolitano has been mad at Trump ever since Trump did not pick him to be a Supreme Court judge and has been a critic of President Trump ever since.Napolitino is acting ignorant over this whole scandal when it comes to Biden,yet seems sure there is a case when it comes to Trump,NOT! There is only evidence of bribary when it comes to Biden and the Obama administration,not Trump. There is no evidence of bribary when it comes to President Trump,only assumptions of "possible" blackmail,without any evidence.

I'm surprised to see DBowling ignoring evidence like he is doing,but TDS will and can cause it.Let the record show that Napolitano was wrong claiming the Mueller report proved obstruction of justice like he claimed,so his credibility is tarnished.As nothing came from Obstruction of justice because of the lack of evidence of obstruction of justice and the Dems and media moved on to now this Ukraine conspiracy theory.

[DBowling]

The company that Hunter Biden worked for, which paid him up to $50k a month, was being investigated for corruption. VP Biden threatened to withhold money if the guy investigating his son's company wasn't fired. There's no evidence that Hunter Biden had any experience that would warrant a $50k per month position, other than his experience being the VP's son.

Joe Biden got his son a job for his personal benefit. A job that he had no business having.

I am well aware of the narrative that Trump and his allies want to perpetuate to distract from Trump's behavior.
And there is absolutely no evidence that Joe Biden got his son a job for personal benefit.
That is yet another evidence free Trumpian misrepresentation.

I gave a quote from Andrew Napolitano to demonstrate the fundamental difference between Trump's behavior and Biden's behavior.

Perhaps the quote from my link below will demonstrate that Biden's actions were taken to enact the foreign policy of the United States in conjunction with our EU allies to deal with corruption in the Ukraine.

Shokin served as prosecutor general under Viktor Yanukovych, the former president of Ukraine who fled to Russia after he was removed from power in 2014 and was later found guilty of treason. Shokin remained in power after Yanukovych’s ouster, but he failed “to indict any major figures from the Yanukovych administration for corruption,” according to testimony John E. Herbst, a former U.S. ambassador to Ukraine under President George W. Bush, gave in March 2016 to a subcommittee of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.

“By late fall of 2015, the EU and the United States joined the chorus of those seeking Mr. Shokin’s removal as the start of an overall reform of the Procurator General’s Office,” Herbst testified. “U.S. Vice President Joe Biden spoke publicly about this before and during his December visit to Kyiv; but Mr. Shokin remained in place.”

In early 2016, Deputy General Prosecutor Vitaliy Kasko resigned in protest of corruption within Shokin’s office. In a televised statement, Kasko said: “Today, the General Prosecutor’s office is a brake on the reform of criminal justice, a hotbed of corruption, an instrument of political pressure, one of the key obstacles to the arrival of foreign investment in Ukraine.”

In reporting on Kasko’s resignation, Reuters noted that Ukraine’s “failure to tackle endemic corruption” threatened the IMF’s $40 billion aid program for Ukraine. At the time, the IMF put a hold on $1.7 billion in aid that had been due to be released to Ukraine four months earlier.

“After President Poroshenko complained that Shokin was taking too long to clean up corruption even within the PGO itself, he asked for Shokin’s resignation,” the CRS report said. Shokin submitted his resignation in February 2016 and was removed a month later.

Michael McFaul, a former U.S. ambassador to Russia under President Barack Obama, on Sept. 20 tweeted that the “Obama administration policy (not just ‘Biden policy’) to push for this Ukrainian general prosecutor to go” was “a shared view in many capitals, multilateral lending institutions, and pro-democratic Ukrainian civil society.”

There is no evidence at all that Biden's actions had anything to do with his son.
That claim is just Trumpian misinformation.