Convinced yet?

[DBowling]

Edward,

THERE ARE NO FACTS !

Just keep on telling yourself that...

I think it's your left-leaning interpretation of the facts, that is in question.

I think the problem goes far beyond the interpretation of facts.

In our political world, facts just don't matter.
What seems to matter is what narrative can you get a critical mass of people to believe. And the factual accuracy of the narrative is irrelevant.
What is important is how many people can you get to accept or embrace a particular narrative.

As we have seen on this board any number of times, meaningful dialog is almost impossible when a common understanding of truth and facts does not exist.

[RickD]

DBowling wrote:
As we have seen on this board any number of times, meaningful dialog is almost impossible when a common understanding of truth and facts does not exist.

Exactly like I said. When differing sides don't have a common understanding of what's truth, and what are the facts, in other words, sides interpret what they see, differently, then the dialog is not meaningful.


What's difficult for me, regarding this topic, is that both sides are so cocksure that they are right. On one hand, we have those who would never seem to betray the President, no matter what. And on the other hand, we have those who would never side with the president no matter what. There's not a whole lot of middle ground.

[Kurieuo]

I'm more wondering what'll happen if/when Trump gets elected a second time around.

Feels to me that there are those plotting to take him down, ever since his election, but it seems escalated due to the likely prospect of having Trump as POTUS another four years. Maybe it's just grandstanding.

If Dems did take Trump down some way (besides winning the election), I'm sure it's cause a major civil divide that won't be pretty. If Trump gets re-elected, then almost the anti-Trump hatred will become even more palpable.

[RickD]

I'm more wondering what'll happen if/when Trump gets elected a second time around.

Feels to me that there are those plotting to take him down, ever since his election, but it seems escalated due to the likely prospect of having Trump as POTUS another four years. Maybe it's just grandstanding.

If Dems did take Trump down some way (besides winning the election), I'm sure it's cause a major civil divide that won't be pretty. If Trump gets re-elected, then almost the anti-Trump hatred will become even more palpable.

This may be the first documented case of TDS.

[Byblos]

Seems like you should have made a case before resting, but suit yourself.

My case rests solely on your willful ignorance.

[edwardmurphy]

Seems like you should have made a case before resting, but suit yourself.

My case rests solely on your willful ignorance.

By which you mean my disinclination to accept your partisan conspiracy theories...

I can live with that.

[Fliegender]

Ed, Ed, Ed...you really should bring your posts to Quora where there aren’t so many mother-trucking Storm Trumpers.

[abelcainsbrother]

Hate to burst your bubble but Trump supporters dominate the internet.Any fake news out there on twitter,facebook,youtube,etc is refuted and shown to be wrong with facts.And to those Trump haters,no matter how much you believe the fake news out there against Trump you cannot get your message out to effect enough people politically speaking because the ratings for all liberal news networks like CNN,MSNBC,ABC,CBS,NBC,CSPAN,etc are down in the toilet,plus CNN just lost its contract to airports that forced them to show CNN on their TV's in airports so that you cannot reach enough people to effect things politically. Even online the readership for liberal news like New York Times,Washington Post,CNN,MSNBC,NBC,CBS,ABC,etc are down in the tank as everybody ignore their anti Trump fake news.Even the late night comedians that bash Trump nightly are down in the tank in ratings. You do not have the audience you once did to effect enough people politically.You are on the losing team bashing Trump.You cannot reach enough people.Our audience is so much larger than yours is and is growing more and more every day.

[abelcainsbrother]

Your posts are making ablecainsbrother's posts seem reasonable by comparison.

Yet again, what did I say that wasn't true?

Trump sought foreign help investigating the Bidens? That's 100% true.

There's no evidence to support Trump's claims about the Bidens? That's 100% true.

There's a lot of evidence disputing Trump's claims about the Biens? That's 100% true.

There's mounting evidence that Trump sought an illegal quid pro quo? That's 100% true. Another whistleblower came forward this morning.

The most scandal-plagued Administration since Harding? That's a judgement call, but it would be ludicrous to deny that Trump's had a lot of major scandals.

It's fascist to call for Trump's election opponents, political rivals, and critics in the media to be imprisoned, even though none of them have been charged with a crime? Are you saying that it's not? How would you describe it?

Where, specifically, am I being hyperbolic?

Where, specifically, am I wrong?

It's safe and easy to respond to everything with sarcastic one-liners and emoticons, but I think you can do better.

You keep repeating fake news and moving the goal posts from your original post in the thread which you accused Trump of extorting Ukraine,yet now you are claiming Trump sought foreign help to investigate Biden,which is not a crime and is not extorting.

You are lying while ignoring the evidence that was given to you of Biden on video admitting and bragging he extorted Ukraine,you stick your head in the sand and refuse to look at the video and refuse to hear Joe Biden claim he extorted Ukraine. You have totally ignored the unredacted phone call transcript of the actual phone call of Trump and the Ukraine Presdent inwhich it proves Trump did not extort Ukraine like you claimed and like Joe Biden did.You are an evidence denier in your Trump Derangement Syndome and the facts do not matter to you.Trump's political rivals are under criminal investigation that you ignore.Yes they have not been indicted yet,but it is coming by Barr and Durham.

I told you months ago they were being investigated and will be charged eventually with treason and sedition in a court of law with real proof and evidence and not fake news accusations that you repeat as if they are fact,without evidence. You are 100% wrong! You might ignore the facts and evidence given to you in this very thread,but very few people ignore evidence.They want the facts and let the chips fall where they may. This is why you're on the losing team,you people have no credibility.

[abelcainsbrother]

I'm sticking to my original statement that Trump will not be impeached.This is a losing situation for Schiff and Pelosi because the facts are not on their side but are on Trump's side. Also Republicans are united against impeachment as the vote on the rules of this impeachment inquiry the other day proved. You're not going to see Republicans jump ship and join in on impeachment like Democrats hoped for.The Republicans in both the House and Senate are united now.The Republicans along with two Democrats voted against the unconstitutional rule changes for this impeachment inquiry.

This is not even an impeachment hearing until a vote is called and Democrats don't have the votes for an impeachment hearing and they don't even want an impeachment hearing because it would go to the Senate and the Republicans would then control everything,not Schiff and Pelosi.And the facts and evidence would prove Trump innocent.This is all just a political show put on by Democrats and the MSM to try to hurt Trump enough politically by leaking things to the press for the 2020 elections. While they pretend this is a real impeachment hearing and put on a show for you like this is very serious and they are going to impeach Trump they think you are fools and can be tricked into not supporting Trump.They are wrong for the vast majority of you.

Just imagine that people like Ed and many with Trump Derangement Syndrome support and vote for people like this that are faking it in order to try to get Trump.This is the kind of leaders running our country they like and support all while claiming Trump is the liar and fraud,Leaders that will openly lie to you and put on a fake unconstitutional impeachment inquiry,lying to you, telling you this is a real impeachment hearing,when it is'nt,even a hearing,but like it is real, to try to trick you.Ed loves it and supports people like this!

[edwardmurphy]

The Republicans along with two Democrats voted against the unconstitutional rule changes for this impeachment inquiry.

It's challenging trying to discuss this stuff with you because it always seems like you're visiting from an alternate universe.

The part that Republicans have been calling unconstitutional, unfair, and a violation of Trump's due process rights is the closed door hearings. Also, they're lying. Impeachment inquiries are always done in secret and the rules that the Dems are currently following - the rules that the Republicans are endlessly crying about - were put in place by John Boehner and the Republican House majority back in 2015. And since you won't believe me, here:



The recent vote was apparently a response to the endless crying mentioned above and to White House counsel Pat Cipollone claiming that the Administration didn't have to cooperate until a formal vote was taken. Now there's been a (completely unnecessary) formal vote, so there's nothing left to cry about. And $100 says that the Administration will still refuse to cooperate with the investigation.

The Dems are proceeding under the rule of law. Trump is desperately trying to obstruct justice. Again.

This is not even an impeachment hearing until a vote is called and Democrats don't have the votes for an impeachment hearing and they don't even want an impeachment hearing because it would go to the Senate and the Republicans would then control everything,not Schiff and Pelosi.And the facts and evidence would prove Trump innocent.

Nobody says it's an impeachment hearing. It's an impeachment inquiry. The Democrats are investigating whether or not impeachment is warranted. As far as the facts and the evidence go, they absolutely, 100% do not prove Trump innocent. The facts look terrible for the President. The evidence looks damning. That's why the Republicans are attacking the process instead of the accusations.

You're correct that the Senate is unlikely to vote to impeach without some truly extraordinary evidence. The Democrats know that. They also know that the evidence is on their side and they think that if they lay it all out, day in and day out, right up until the formal vote is taken, the Senate GOP will wind up with two choices - convict the President, or acquit him in a manner so nakedly partisan and corrupt that the voters are repelled and the GOP is annihilated in 2020.

I don't know what will happen, but the facts are crystal clear. The evidence shows that Donald Trump did what he's been accused of, then tried to cover it up, is now trying to bog down the resulting investigation.

This is all just a political show put on by Democrats and the MSM to try to hurt Trump enough politically by leaking things to the press for the 2020 elections. While they pretend this is a real impeachment hearing and put on a show for you like this is very serious and they are going to impeach Trump they think you are fools and can be tricked into not supporting Trump.They are wrong for the vast majority of you.

The Democrats aren't pretending anything. It's an impeachment inquiry. Everybody knows that, or at least everybody should. I'm not sure why you think that's a hot scoop.

Also, the majority don't need to be tricked into not supporting Trump. The majority have never supported Trump. That's why he lost the popular election by nearly 3 million votes, why the GOP got 10 million fewer votes in the midterms and lost the House (thereby making the current impeachment inquiry possible), and why Trump's aggregate approval rating currently sits at less than 43% and has never topped 46%. Believe what you want to, but those are the facts.

Just imagine that people like Ed and many with Trump Derangement Syndrome support and vote for people like this that are faking it in order to try to get Trump.This is the kind of leaders running our country they like and support all while claiming Trump is the liar and fraud,Leaders that will openly lie to you and put on a fake impeachment hearing for you as if it is real to try to trick you.

Abe, I have yet to hear anybody in the mainstream media or any politician claim that the impeachment inquiry is anything other than an inquiry. We all know it's not an impeachment hearing. This is not news. You're the one with Trump Derangement Syndrome, Abe. You've always been the one.

The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction and the distinction between true and false no longer exist.

[abelcainsbrother]

The Republicans along with two Democrats voted against the unconstitutional rule changes for this impeachment inquiry.

It's challenging trying to discuss this stuff with you because it always seems like you're visiting from an alternate universe.

The part that Republicans have been calling unconstitutional, unfair, and a violation of Trump's due process rights is the closed door hearings. Also, they're lying. Impeachment inquiries are always done in secret and the rules that the Dems are currently following - the rules that the Republicans are endlessly crying about - were put in place by John Boehner and the Republican House majority back in 2015. And since you won't believe me, here:



The recent vote was apparently a response to the endless crying mentioned above and to White House counsel Pat Cipollone claiming that the Administration didn't have to cooperate until a formal vote was taken. Now there's been a (completely unnecessary) formal vote, so there's nothing left to cry about. And $100 says that the Administration will still refuse to cooperate with the investigation.

The Dems are proceeding under the rule of law. Trump is desperately trying to obstruct justice. Again.

This is not even an impeachment hearing until a vote is called and Democrats don't have the votes for an impeachment hearing and they don't even want an impeachment hearing because it would go to the Senate and the Republicans would then control everything,not Schiff and Pelosi.And the facts and evidence would prove Trump innocent.

Nobody says it's an impeachment hearing. It's an impeachment inquiry. The Democrats are investigating whether or not impeachment is warranted. As far as the facts and the evidence go, they absolutely, 100% do not prove Trump innocent. The facts look terrible for the President. The evidence looks damning. That's why the Republicans are attacking the process instead of the accusations.

You're correct that the Senate is unlikely to vote to impeach without some truly extraordinary evidence. The Democrats know that. They also know that the evidence is on their side and they think that if they lay it all out, day in and day out, right up until the formal vote is taken, the Senate GOP will wind up with two choices - convict the President, or acquit him in a manner so nakedly partisan and corrupt that the voters are repelled and the GOP is annihilated in 2020.

I don't know what will happen, but the facts are crystal clear. The evidence shows that Donald Trump did what he's been accused of, then tried to cover it up, is now trying to bog down the resulting investigation.

This is all just a political show put on by Democrats and the MSM to try to hurt Trump enough politically by leaking things to the press for the 2020 elections. While they pretend this is a real impeachment hearing and put on a show for you like this is very serious and they are going to impeach Trump they think you are fools and can be tricked into not supporting Trump.They are wrong for the vast majority of you.

The Democrats aren't pretending anything. It's an impeachment inquiry. Everybody knows that, or at least everybody should. I'm not sure why you think that's a hot scoop.

Also, the majority don't need to be tricked into not supporting Trump. The majority have never supported Trump. That's why he lost the popular election by nearly 3 million votes, why the GOP got 10 million fewer votes in the midterms and lost the House (thereby making the current impeachment inquiry possible), and why Trump's aggregate approval rating currently sits at less than 43% and has never topped 46%. Believe what you want to, but those are the facts.

Just imagine that people like Ed and many with Trump Derangement Syndrome support and vote for people like this that are faking it in order to try to get Trump.This is the kind of leaders running our country they like and support all while claiming Trump is the liar and fraud,Leaders that will openly lie to you and put on a fake impeachment hearing for you as if it is real to try to trick you.

Abe, I have yet to hear anybody in the mainstream media or any politician claim that the impeachment inquiry is anything other than an inquiry. We all know it's not an impeachment hearing. This is not news. You're the one with Trump Derangement Syndrome, Abe. You've always been the one.

The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction and the distinction between true and false no longer exist.

The reason why Trump won't and should not cooperate with this is because it is not an impeachment hearing.So Trump does not have to cooperate with this and he should'nt. This is fake. Unless you have evidence of Trump extorting Ukraine in the phone call like you originally claimed then there is no crime,and yet now you somehow think Trump asking for help in an investigation is a crime,when it is'nt. So no, there is no crime here,just a manufactured fake crime just like Trump colluded with Russia that was never shown to be true like was said for over two years.

Also no,this was not a formal vote like you claim this was a vote on impeachment inquiry and not an impeachment hearing,so you've been tricked just like I already explained the Dems and MSM are trying to do.It worked on you.Again Trump cannot be impeached without a REAL impeachment hearing and Democrats don't have the votes.So there can be no impeachment.This is all a political show put on by Democrats and the MSM to try to hurt Trump going into the 2020 elections.

Also and you keep ignoring this fact but no Presidential candidate can lose the electoral college by so much and yet win the popular vote by so much is unless there is vote fraud like Hillary did.So you bragging about popular vote just proves Democrats cheated and still lost. It was not a close election like you imply.Trump won in a landslide.You ignore this fact just like the facts in this thread about Biden and the actual transcript of the phone call.

We do know this is not an impeachment hearing yet Pelosi and Schiff are acting like this is trying to fool everybody,including you. You're the one ignoring the facts,not me,just like you always do and then end up being wrong. You're already proven wrong in your original post in this thread and it is going to continue,you being wrong.

[edwardmurphy]

The Democrats are essentially holding a grand jury hearing. They're trying to determine if impeachment is warranted. It's in Trump's interest to demonstrate that impeachment is a silly move because he did nothing wrong. All he needs to do is tell his people to go to their depositions and tell the truth. Assuming that he did nothing wrong, I mean.

The thing is, he's not doing that. He has instead chosen to try to discredit and disrupt the investigation. It's puzzling that an innocent man would act so guilty. A real head scratcher...

Regarding your idiotic conspiracy theory, no, the Democrats did not have millions of illegal votes. There is no evidence that they cheated. The Republicans ran a good campaign and managed to get just enough votes to get the EC, thereby subverting the will of the majority. So sure, they won fair and square (apart from the collusion with Russia, the voter suppression, and the racist gerrymandering), but they don't have majority support. You should read up on how our democracy works. If you understood anything about it you wouldn't be so quick to fall for [nonsense] conspiracy theories.

And finally, no, Pelosi and Schiff aren't pretending that the impeachment inquiry isn't an impeachment inquiry. The actual pretending is the GOP pretending that the Dems changed the rules (they're using the same rules the GOP put in place in 2015, and if that seems unfair to you then HAHAHAHAHA! Suck it up snowflake, what comes around goes around!), pretending that a vote was necessary to start the inquiry (it's not), pretending that the GOP has no representation during the hearings (11 of the 12 guys who stormed that SCIF were on the committees and were invited), and pretending that there's nothing to see here (there's plenty).

The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction and the distinction between true and false no longer exist.

Stop wallowing in ignorance. Stop being a useful idiot for lying pundits. Read the Constitution. Learn a bit of history. Step out of the alt-right bubble. Learn to think.

[abelcainsbrother]

The Democrats are essentially holding a grand jury hearing. They're trying to determine if impeachment is warranted. It's in Trump's interest to demonstrate that impeachment is a silly move because he did nothing wrong. All he needs to do is tell his people to go to their depositions and tell the truth. Assuming that he did nothing wrong, I mean.

The thing is, he's not doing that. He has instead chosen to try to discredit and disrupt the investigation. It's puzzling that an innocent man would act so guilty. A real head scratcher...

Regarding your idiotic conspiracy theory, no, the Democrats did not have millions of illegal votes. There is no evidence that they cheated. The Republicans ran a good campaign and managed to get just enough votes to get the EC, thereby subverting the will of the majority. So sure, they won fair and square (apart from the collusion with Russia, the voter suppression, and the racist gerrymandering), but they don't have majority support. You should read up on how our democracy works. If you understood anything about it you wouldn't be so quick to fall for [nonsense] conspiracy theories.

And finally, no, Pelosi and Schiff aren't pretending that the impeachment inquiry isn't an impeachment inquiry. The actual pretending is the GOP pretending that the Dems changed the rules (they're using the same rules the GOP put in place in 2015, and if that seems unfair to you then HAHAHAHAHA! Suck it up snowflake, what comes around goes around!), pretending that a vote was necessary to start the inquiry (it's not), pretending that the GOP has no representation during the hearings (11 of the 12 guys who stormed that SCIF were on the committees and were invited), and pretending that there's nothing to see here (there's plenty).

The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction and the distinction between true and false no longer exist.

Stop wallowing in ignorance. Stop being a useful idiot for lying pundits. Read the Constitution. Learn a bit of history. Step out of the alt-right bubble. Learn to think.

No Trump does not need to cooperate at all with this impeachment inquiry.Trump cooperated with the Mueller investigation and it did not matter they still accsed him of obstruction of justice,so no Trump does not and should not cooperate with this impeachment inquiry. Just because you believe Trump is guilty of something without any evidence does not mean he must cooperate or else you'll know he is guilty. It does'nt work like that in the real world. You have to present real evidence of Trump extorting Ukraine in his phone call something Democrats and the MSM have not done.They are just relying on hear-say testimony from anonymous sources and that is not evidence. Imagine you were in a trial like this and your constitutional due process rights were taken away and you're accuser was anonymous.You'd be singing a much different tune but you have TDS.

Remember me telling you about the fire wall? Remember me telling you that the Senate was the key? Trump only campaigned for Senators and they won.The Democrats have been led into the firewall by Trump and his team and now you see the firewall.This impeachment inquiry has hit the firewall and it cannot go forward.Trump is not afraid to let the Democrats and MSM make fools of themselves in front of everybody,for everybody to see.We even knew from Q a year ago that once the Mueller investigation is over the Dems will still try to keep the Trump is a criminal narrative going with this lie about extorting Ukraine.So we knew this was coming. Where were you? under a rock? We know how this is going to turn out already by plan.

I think you are ignoring historical elections because no matter how much you deny it a Presidential candidate cannot lose the EC by so much and win the popular vote by so much unless there is vote fraud.The only way a Presidential candidate can win the popular vote while losing EC is if it is a close election.This was not a close election no matter how much you deny it. No conspiracy theory here,just the facts. You are just regurgitating the fake news political narrative that ignored the facts.

The difference is Clinton actually committed perjury which is a real crime. You and the MSM and Democrats accused Trump of extorting Ukraine in his phone call,which has been proven a lie now. Yet you continue to believe liars who lie to you over and over despite Trump colluded with Russia,Mueller report will prove it,Trump will be impeached when Mueller report comes out,Trump committed obstruction of justice,Mueller testifying,etc all now shown to be nothing burgers and now it is Trump extorted Ukraine in a phone call,which is another lie. Yet no matter how many times these people get it wrong,you still believe and trust them. You don't see me doing this when it comes to Trump because he has not lied to his supporters,yet you like to be lied to and played a fool by Democrats,the MSM,etc over and over. And you wonder why nobody believes anything ya'll say? It is up to the individual to look at the facts,something you and people like you are not willing to do because you have Trump Derangement Syndrome.

Yes this was just the Democrats changing the rules for an impeachment inquiry,not an impeachment hearing.I don't care if you think it is fair because you claim Republicans did it before because it won't matter in the end,anyway. It is the very Democrats accusing Trump of crimes that are the ones that are going down for real crimes in a real court of law,with real evidence of treason and sedition and when it happens you're going to be saying Trump is just doing this to take out his political enemies.The difference will be REAL EVIDENCE of crimes of treason and sedition in a court of law.Remember Trump hits back ten times harder than they hit.

[abelcainsbrother]

By the way Q is back and we have another Q proof because Q said that there would be 93 days of darkness and it was exactly 93 days from when Q last posted and the web-sight 8chan was taken down by political enemies.The owners rebuilt the websight now known as 8kun and it is now even more fortified and will be much,much harder for them to take this one down.

But Q also posted "Rig For Red" which is a military phrase used by the military in submarines that go on a secret mission in complete darkness under the sea.When it is time to resurface they turn on a red light to help come into the light again as they come to the surface again as you must adjust to the light again after being in darkness for so long.This was Q letting us know that they have been in darkness on a secret mission but are now resurfacing into the light and are back.