Key Facts About Salvation many miss or overlook when it comes to Christianity.

[PaulSacramento]

And what is the Gospel?

[Philip]

Abel: If a person does not hear the gospel then they cannot be drawn to Christ.

This is false. A person can be DRAWN by God before hearing the Gospel. But there is no indication in Scripture they can be saved without first knowing about Jesus and submitting themselves to Him.

Look at the Roman centurion Cornelius, in Acts 10. Scripture says he was devout and feared God, gave generously, and prayed to God continuously - so a man can respond to God's drawing and wooing without being saved. But, following all of the New Testament examples, no one is ever saved without first hearing and committing themselves to Christ in faith - they have to first know about Jesus to be saved. And God can make them aware of Jesus in many ways - even in dreams and visions - so, He doesn't always use other Christians to connect them to the Gospel.

Abel: And this gets back to the fact that man must be drawn in order to be saved and so if you have not been drawn you cannot be saved.

God is constantly drawing ALL men (He stands at the door and knocks!) - but His drawing is only effectively DRAWS those whom begin to have willing hearts which allows them to be drawn. ANYONE with a willing / open heart toward God will be drawn by Him, and anyone without such a willingness will NOT be drawn. Abe, you make it sound like God draws some but doesn't draw others - AS IF He decides some he doesn't want to draw or save. Again, it's not that He doesn't attempt to draw ALL, but more a matter that many are resistant and rebellious in heart and mind, and want nothing to do with God's wooing / drawing.

[LonnieOwesn1973]

Since it's one month until Christmas...
Matthew 1:21
She will bear a Son; and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins.”

But we still sin, even when we are saved...

Correct...
But...

Scripture tells us that when we are saved...
we are born again (John 3:3)
we become a new creation (2 Cor 5:17)
we receive the indwelling Holy Spirit (Romans 8:9)
we are no longer slaves to sin (Romans 6:6-7)
we are being transformed into the likeness of Jesus (2 Cor 3:17-18)

almost there but on the right track...

Since my post was basically quoting Scripture, I would expect to be 'on the right track'

Can't be transformed into the Likeness of Jesus until you are walking in the spirit.

I think a more accurate statement would be...
We can't be transformed into the likeness of Jesus until we have the indwelling Holy Spirit.
It is the Holy Spirit who does the transforming, It is not anything that we do or can do.

When we submit to the work of the Holy Spirit in our lives then we are able to 'walk in the Spirit' and display the fruit of the Spirit (Gal 5:22-25).

you are not born again unless you actually start making the changes in your life to reflect the doctrine of Jesus.

You have the sequence of events backwards.
We are not even capable of making changes in our life to reflect the doctrine of Jesus until AFTER we are born again and have received the indwelling Holy Spirit.

Ephesians 2:8-9 is clear and unambiguous.
We are saved by grace through faith, not by works.

Without the presence of the Holy Spirit, we are incapable in our own power of 'walking in the Spirit' or producing the fruit of the Spirit.
And Scripture tells us that we don't receive the indwelling Holy Spirit until after we have put our faith and trust in Jesus and become 'born again'.

Ok you are not born again unless you actually start making the changes in your life... if you get down on your knees and ask God to come into your life and remain the exact same then you have not been born again the Holy Ghost is not going to make the changes for your...

[RickD]

LonnieOwesn1973 wrote:
Ok you are not born again unless you actually start making the changes in your life... if you get down on your knees and ask God to come into your life and remain the exact same then you have not been born again the Holy Ghost is not going to make the changes for your...

So in other words, you're saying that someone isn't born again, unless he performs in a certain way?

[Philip]

What changes in his life did the saved thief on a cross beside Jesus make in his life before Jesus said to him, "Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.”

The ONLY change that thief had - and it's the only thing that allows anyone to RECEIVE Christ's salvation - is he had a heart / mind change towards God / Jesus, in his very last hours on earth, and decided to thus recognize and express to Jesus his desire for Him to his Lord and thus submitted himself and beseeched Him by requesting Jesus remember him when He came into His Kingdom. The saved thief also acknowledged before Jesus / God his sins and guilt as also chastised the (other) unsaved thief for continuing to mock Jesus in unbelief. The saved thief acknowledged to Jesus that He was recognizing Him as God, by his request: "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.” And so, remarkably, this thief's heart had changed amidst the agony of being on a cross beside Jesus. In a matter of hours, he had changed from unbelief in who Jesus was to realizing He was God. And accordingly, he placed his hope and faith in Jesus as his only hope for salvation.

As for getting his life right before God with good actions and deeds - he had done none of that. What he had done - the ONLY and key thing he had done was to change his mind and heart over who and what (God!) Jesus actually is, while also expressing his guilt as a sinner and calling upon Jesus to remember him in Jesus Kingdom to come. Now, had that thief yet begun to live his life as God wanted him to? Yes, but ONLY in that first but crucial step, of changing his heart and mind towards God and submitting to Christ. Had he lived beyond the cross, that thief's changes in learning how to live as God wants us to would likely have been a slow, difficult and ugly process of sanctification - even though he was (at the very last moment) saved by Jesus. The key thing is to remember, God saves people where they ARE and while yet still IN their sins. Because if we otherwise had to first get our act together and stop sinning first - not only could one never quit ALL sins, but it would make salvation as being contingent upon our own personal effort and works - when it is ONLY true faith in and submittance to Jesus that allows Him to save us. We - NO one - can ever be good enough to merit salvation. And that saved thief is a powerful illustration of this truth, for all ages!

And so what does the Bible say about works and salvation?

Ephesians 2: 8: For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is NOT your own doing; it is the GIFT of God, 9 NOT a result of works, so that no one may boast.

[LonnieOwesn1973]

1.You must be born again to become a Christian.You cannot save yourself nor act like a Christian and truly be one.
John 3:3

Many think that Christianity is just another religion,amongst a long list of other religions and they are all kinda the same they just believe in different gods and Jesus is just another kind of god people believe in.This is not true though as you can simply join a church of any other religion I'm aware of,learn the laws and rules you must live by the rest of your life,learn the religious rituals you must perform,etc and change yourself to become one. You cannot do this in Chistianity.Why would you choose some other god over Jesus? The choice is obvious from a religion view point.

2.Jesus paid for your salvation in full.

God has already did everything for you in his salvation plan for you to be saved.There is nothing you can do to add to it.All you have to do is have faith and believe in Jesus for your salvation and be saved.This is how you recieve the gift of salvation and it is not much effort on your part at all because Jesus really already did everything for you.It is really too easy for people to accept,but it is true nonetheless.
Romans 5:16-21

3.You don't really decide when it is time to be saved,God decides,when it is time.Unless the Holy Spirit is drawing you to Christ you cannot be saved.If you have not ever experienced this then I suggest you try churches,etc until it happens,because until it does,you cannot be saved,no matter how hard you pray.

It is not about you,but about God's plan for your salvation and how everything has already been done for you to be saved.You cannot necessarily wait until you're on your death bed to be saved,because the Holy Spirit may not draw you then,which means you cannot be saved.I mean it is not impossible that a peron could be saved whe they are on their death bed,but the Holy Sprit must draw you,another way of saying this is the Holy Spirit must convict you and draw you to Christ to be saved.
John 6:44

4. It is when you have been born again that you are changed into a Christian,and not until then,no matter how you might act like a Christian,etc or what you might do.

A person can put on an act like they are a Christian and not really be one.Only God truly knows who has been saved or not,which is why he is the judge and not us.The closest we can tell is by their fruit,but even then it is not a sure thing.It is important for you to know for yourself and not be putting on an act which is what being a hypocrite is really all about.A hypocrite is somebody putting on an act like they are a Christian when they really are not.It is not somebody who says one thing and does another,otherwise we'd all be hypocrites.


2nd Corinthians 5:17. Galatians 6:15

5.Out of all other gods out there only Jesus truly showed you love like no other god out there by actually fulfilling everything for you so that you could be saved.None of them did.From a religious point of view Jesus is the easy choice even if you don't know much about religion.If we just take each religion on face value,and honestly without any strawmen,there should be no reason why you would choose some other god over Jesus based on the love and sacrifice he showed you.

The other gods may talk a good game about love but when the rubber hits the road they never put it all on the line for you like Jesus did with his actions and not just words.

John 3:16 John 3:19 Hebrews 12:1-4

Very Good explanation and I would agree on the Majority but I do have a small problem with number 2.
The only thing Jesus did was pay the Blood sacrifice for our sins so that we would not have to pay it any longer. Jesus did not pay everything in full, sad but true.
Hebrews 10:26 "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,"

one you accept the sacrifice you are accepting the Law of God and acknowledging Gods authority over you and this means God's 10 commandments.
Jesus never said, nor was it implied anywhere in scripture, that his sacrifice was the end of the Laws of God. in fact, as far as I can tell, the heavens and the earth is still going strong and Christ has not Come again to receive his children.

Matthew 5:17-19 "17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

so if Jesus paid everything in full then we would not have to ask for forgiveness, there would be no sin and there would be no need for a hell.

Salvation is not given it is earned. you just can't say you believe in Christ and say you are saved because if that were the case 98%of the world would be going to heaven...

To receive salvation one must completely give themselves over to the service of God and to submit to His authority.

As the life of Christ was his Doctrine so we must, as followers of Christ, our lives must reflect the doctrine of Christ from the time we are reborn until the time of our mortal death without any regrets.

Then and only then are you truly saved, not before...

why do you think that God sent Jesus to walk among us and to die for our sins? Because God made note that the sacrifices given in the past were in vain because people would give the sacrifice, as prescribed, but never follow through with their vow to never do it again because they believed that all they had to do was to give sacrifice and all would be forgive.

once you ask for forgiveness then it is forgiven, but if you continue to do the same things then you never really meant your first vow to change your ways....

when someone tells me that it is impossible to obey the commandments I always ask the " how is impossible?" They say that the will continue to sin regardless because they cannot help it... this is giving in to the lusts of the flesh and therefore they have never fully understood the meaning behind the sacrifice of Christ nor his doctrine.

salvation is earned by the life we lead not Give by the words that come out of our mouths.

When God wakes a person up he shows them the world as he sees it not as the way our blinders show us every day.

I know this because God woke me up almost 6 years ago and I haven't looked back since...

[RickD]

Lonnie wrote:
salvation is earned by the life we lead not Give by the words that come out of our mouths

Salvation is a gift by God's grace. A gift, by definition, cannot be earned.

[Philip]

Just to note, it is important to not cherrypick verses out of their context to make a point. Hebrews 26:10 is a NOT saying if one sins after salvation that such sin is not covered. For one thing, ANY speck of sin not covered by Jesus by one having faith in Him would be enough for eternal condemnation. But Jesus' sacrifice "takes away the sins of the world" - yet only for those whom have received Him. ALL Christians sin - sometimes consciously, other times not. But Jesus' blood covers ALL sins of believers.

Back to context - notice just a few verses later, one sees that the sin mentioned in verse 26 is about one totally rejecting God / Christ / the Holy Spirit - and no Christian will ever do that - because it is God who secures and makes our salvation permanent. The Apostle Paul said he was "confident of this, that He who began a good work in you will continue to perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus." God began and completes our salvation, we must only be willing to and desirous of receiving it!

Hebrews 29: How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has trampled underfoot the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace?

The Apostle Paul lamented, "(Romans 7: 18-19) For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right, but not the ability to carry it out. For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I keep on doing.

[jpbg33]

Romans 10:13

For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved

i have a hard time believing that if someone prays for God to say them they won't be saved. Maybe people will not call on the the name of the Lord if they're not being drawed but if a person calls upon the name of the lord while we are in the dispensation of Grace they will be saved.

[jpbg33]

RickD

it is heresy to change the bible to what you wanted to say.

Matthew 1:21

21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

He's not saving them from the wages of there sin He's saving them from their sin.

you can't take that verse and where it says from their sins and change it to from the wages at their sins.