LonnieOwesn1973 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 01, 2019 6:31 pm
Jesus and God working on the sabbath day....
So, lemme get this straight...
You've seen where scripture says that both Jesus and The Father worked on the sabbath. And instead of seeing that Jesus is saying he's equal in essence to The Father, you conclude that nobody was supposed to obey the sabbath law?
Is that what you're saying?
John 5:24 24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
John 5:24 24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
LonnieOwesn1973 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 01, 2019 6:31 pm
Jesus and God working on the sabbath day....
So, lemme get this straight...
You've seen where scripture says that both Jesus and The Father worked on the sabbath. And instead of seeing that Jesus is saying he's equal in essence to The Father, you conclude that nobody was supposed to obey the sabbath law?
Is that what you're saying?
exactly.. lets see david then the disciples because they were hungry and the priests because the worked on the sabbath and taught others not to work... work is work according you what you have said...
so, I am guessing, Jesus should have just that crippled man be until after the sabbath... just stating reality...
LonnieOwesn1973 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 01, 2019 6:31 pm
Jesus and God working on the sabbath day....
So, lemme get this straight...
You've seen where scripture says that both Jesus and The Father worked on the sabbath. And instead of seeing that Jesus is saying he's equal in essence to The Father, you conclude that nobody was supposed to obey the sabbath law?
Is that what you're saying?
exactly.. lets see david then the disciples because they were hungry and the priests because the worked on the sabbath and taught others not to work... work is work according you what you have said...
so, I am guessing, Jesus should have just that crippled man be until after the sabbath... just stating reality...
Lonnie,
Jesus, being God, is the one who created the sabbath. He is Lord of the sabbath. From the link I just posted, Jesus is greater than the Law and above the laws of the Mosaic Covenant because, as God in flesh, He is the Author of those laws.
John 5:24 24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
Hebrews 2:7 “You have made him [a]for a little while lower than the angels;
You have crowned him with glory and honor, And have appointed him over the works of Your hands;"
LonnieOwesn1973 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 01, 2019 7:13 pm
if he is equal in essence to god explain this one
Hebrews 2:7 “You have made him [a]for a little while lower than the angels;
You have crowned him with glory and honor, And have appointed him over the works of Your hands;"
Perhaps this will help
Philippians 2:5-11
5 In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
7 rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
8 And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
by becoming obedient to death—
even death on a cross!
9 Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,
10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.
“Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the NAME of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit . . .”
Note that the verse references only ONE name (singular) for all three persons that are members of the Trinity of God - of the ONE God. With each equally God, but with differing roles but in perfect harmony and sync. That God is a Trinity is clear from many verses, with the very first one referencing God's Trinity of three persons (Father, Son and Spirit) to be found in Genesis 1:26: "Then God said, “Let US make man in OUR image, after OUR likeness."
Philip wrote: ↑Sun Dec 01, 2019 9:12 pm
God is a Trinity, Lonnie!
Matthew 28:19
“Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the NAME of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit . . .”
Note that the verse references only ONE name (singular) for all three persons that are members of the Trinity of God - of the ONE God. With each equally God, but with differing roles but in perfect harmony and sync. That God is a Trinity is clear from many verses, with the very first one referencing God's Trinity of three persons (Father, Son and Spirit) to be found in Genesis 1:26: "Then God said, “Let US make man in OUR image, after OUR likeness."
ok so Genesis 1:26... I was waiting for this one to come up as well....
throughout the old testament they only spoke of one God and in genesis it is said " And so God made Man in his own image and in his own Likeness."
The holy trinity was only ever mentioned in the new testament and only acknowledged after Jesus made the Baptism statement and therefor of course Jesus would have been there with God in the beginning because, if you go by 26, then the argument could be made about God being a part of all of us from the beginning because God gave art of himself so that man could live when he breathed the breath of Life into the nostrils of Adam and further more in that aspect no one would burn in hell because God would never allow himself to be placed in that position....
so in a few moments I will have my full breakdown on everything presented to me thus far and I will have questions that I would like answers to that back up the beliefs... Fair is fair...
God would not allow me to walk away Last night and all night long he has been showing me things and I will share in my lengthy post...
John 1:1 is probably the easiest to understand but it does not, in any way, state that Jesus was God... If God was in the beginning and all things were made by him and through him and without Him nothing could be made then those statements cannot be countermanded... The angels were also with God in the beginning so does that make the Angels God as well??
Jesus always placed God before anything, even himself and distinctly made it clear that he could do nothing of say nothing without it coming from God..
The thing is this, when man starts placing Man above God there becomes a line in the sand that the devil has placed for us to cross and many have done just that..
Like I said before, chow my one verse where Jesus makes the claim he is God, that he is equal to God or that he is better than God... God may have given him charge but for Jesus to be God, even in insinuation, he would have to make that statement...
the verses I have been quoted are ones that have been posed to me over and over again, as to the acceptance of Jesus being God but no one has yet to produce any scripture where Jesus states he is God...
I and my father are one is not one of those statement for the simple fact Jesus also states if you have faith as a mustard seed the things I do, you can do and so much more... John 14:12 12 Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do, he will do also; and greater works than these he will do; because I go to the Father.
so the wonderful works that Jesus has done , in this statement he say we would be able to greater than the things he did and all we have to have is a mustard seed of faith Matthew 17:20.. Jesus calmed the seas with his faith, which would be the power that God gave to him and all of us, the power not the faith is granted, you can follow the commandments all you like but until you have complete and total faith in God, as Jesus did, then you will lack that which Jesus says we can do...
The fact that so many versus and passages come up supporting the Jesus is God, the multitude of statements made by Christ goes unacknowledged because to acknowledge them would mean that you would have to have to separate the two and then they would be two God's not one, plus an argument could be made that Jesus being God would mean that God could die a mortal death....
So if the apostles truly believed that Jesus was God, or even a God, then their faith was in the wrong place because all things are possible with God and when Jesus appeared to them they looked as if they had seen a spirit because they did not truly believe that Jesus would be resurrected...
Luke 24:37 But they were startled and frightened and thought that they were seeing a spirit...
Jesus Gave description of God as being only a spirit.. John 4:24 God is [a]spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.” and what did Jesus say to them about himself? Luke 24:39 See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have.
Faith should be unwavering and mine wavered last night but only for a brief bit...
For those of Faith, if the body is sick, God will make things right with them that believe in him and him only, and God never gave anyone a name, God only said "Tell them I AM that I AM" Because if God would have given a name to be called we would be calling him by that name instead of God.... God is a title not a name.
I do not assume anything when it comes to God nor to a make a claim that I can not factually prove with scripture... If Jesus was God on earth give me at least one piece of scripture where Jesus states he is God, That's all I ask...
I can see where everyone can ascertain and draw conclusions as to what Jesus was based on scripture, but when Jesus says, " Why callest thou me Good? there is none God but one , and that is God?" and God says " Behold, my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." to clear assertions that Jesus and God were 2 separate beings... When, during the temptations of Christ, the devil even acknowledges Christ as only the Son of God, because apparently Jesus was mortal, also leads one to think about John 1:1 because, since the Satan is a fallen angel and was with God from the beginning, then why did he not recognize Christ even as one that was around at that time.. He did not say since you are the son of God, he did not say that God told him or he knew, he said, it is written that God will give the angels charge to bear you up lest you dash your foot upon a stone.
And Jesus also says,Matthew 12:46-50 46 While He was still speaking to the crowds, behold, His mother and brothers were standing outside, seeking to speak to Him. 47 Someone said to Him, “Behold, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside seeking to speak to You.”[a] 48 But Jesus answered the one who was telling Him and said, “Who is My mother and who are My brothers?” 49 And stretching out His hand toward His disciples, He said, “Behold My mother and My brothers! 50 For whoever does the will of My Father who is in heaven, he is My brother and sister and mother.
so I ask you, being a brother or sister would be an equal, to be a mother would be one of authority, how can one be over God or equal to God if GOd is the supreme authority?
LonnieOwesn1973 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:15 am
John 1:1 is probably the easiest to understand
Yes it is
John 1:1 just comes right out and says it
but it does not, in any way, state that Jesus was God...
You couldn't be more wrong!
John 1:1 explicitly and unambiguously states that Jesus is God.
Here it is... again
John 1:1-3
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
The Word was with God The Word was God
All things were made through the Word
You can't wiggle your way out of that one.
John 1:1 explicitly tells us that
The Word (Jesus) WAS God
If Jesus was God on earth give me at least one piece of scripture where Jesus states he is God, That's all I ask...
We've already given you more than one in this thread. Here are three.
Matthew 12:8
John 5:23
John 8:58
(and there are many more)
I am searching for a Bible verse where Jesus comes out to say he is God, because so far I have seen none...
did everyone think I would just roll over and cry uncle??? I have an open mind and will accept empirical fact not assertions..
I can assume anything just by reading scripture here is an example, one that I do not adhere to but can be used to prove a point...
Matthew 15:11.. a smoker can take that one verse to say that he is doing no wrong when in fact we all know that smoking is destroying the temple of God...
So without an actual statement that Jesus made, not assumptions, one cannot make a valid claim that Jesus was God because when God spoke in Matthew 3:13, and the devil Referred in Matthew 4:3-10 to Jesus as the Son of God, and why would Jesus need angels to minister to him if he were God because God is all knowing and yall have already stated that Jesus knew all...
Again the scripture where Jesus states he is God please?
LonnieOwesn1973 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 02, 2019 7:18 am
Matthew 2:8 no statement from Jesus stating he was God.
Wrong again...
Jesus is explicitly saying he is "Lord of the Sabbath"
Who is Lord of the Sabbath?
John 5: 23.. not there either
Wrong again...
Jesus is claiming that he is worthy of the same honor as the Father
And Jesus also points out that those who dishonor him are also dishonoring the Father
... you might want to think about that when you make posts that dishonor Jesus.
John 8:58 was I am, talking about God not himself...
Wrong yet again...
Here is the context to show that Jesus is referring to himself as I AM
John 8:57-59
57 “You are not yet fifty years old,” they said to him, “and you have seen Abraham!”
58 “Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!” 59 At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.
Oh... one more note of interest.
I AM is the linguistic basis for God's covenant name Yahweh.
So when Jesus referred to himself as I AM, he was equating himself with Yahweh.
And that's why the Jews wanted to stone Jesus.
Jesus was claiming to be Yahweh.
God we worship because he is God, our father and our creator...
Ok... Jesus received worship too...
(and as John 1:3 tells us, Jesus is our Creator too)
Matthew 14:32-33
32 And when they climbed into the boat, the wind died down. 33 Then those who were in the boat worshiped him, saying, “Truly you are the Son of God.”
