Re: Is Jesus God? And Why it Matters.

RickD · Post by **RickD** » Sun Dec 08, 2019 2:21 pm

Lonnie,

I posted this before. You must've missed it, or ignored it. The answer in the link explains your question.

https://www.gotquestions.org/did-God-die.html

LonnieOwesn1973 · Post by **LonnieOwesn1973** » Sun Dec 08, 2019 2:46 pm

I didn't ask for a link lol I asked if you believed God could die?

Because people can explain all they want on why it coyld be possible but at the end of the day we all know God cannot die...

Can you not form you own belief or do you rely on someone else to explain how God can die???

Remember according to the Doctrine of the Trinity Jesus is God and therefore cannot die, based on the very thought that the two are one in the same and we already established that you believe that Jesus is the God of Genesis...

LonnieOwesn1973 · Post by **LonnieOwesn1973** » Sun Dec 08, 2019 2:51 pm

Not one theologian I know can explain how God can die.. In fact everyone of them say he can't die because he is immortal and therefore he could not die on the cross because God wasn't placed on the cross Jesus was... So if Jesus is God then God was placed on the cross and God himself died for our sins and not Jesus. Sorry that very thought is sacrilege...

LonnieOwesn1973 · Post by **LonnieOwesn1973** » Sun Dec 08, 2019 3:09 pm

My thing is this, if a person cannot answer a question in their own words, it is my belief that they are having doubts and there is nothing wrong with that because it means they are still searching.

So I am sorry if I came across as rude, please forgive that.. It was wrong of me and not very Christian of me...

Post by **Philip** » Sun Dec 08, 2019 4:37 pm

Lonnie, you aren't being honest - you are deliberately avoiding the explanation of Jesus' BODY dying, in Rick's link - because it shows your argument to have no merit! Of course GOD cannot die. But Jesus was BOTH God and man. What died was his earthly body. But God is SPIRIT (John 4:24). JESUS did not die, but His body did. Your explanation would suggest that when His body died that Jesus Himself ceased to exist. When you, I or any human died our spirits will still exist - either eternally with or without God. When Jesus became human, growing His earthly body in His earthly mother's womb, this was not the beginning of His existence - as He is eternal. And His spirit put on the cloak of humanity (flesh, mind, etc. - every aspect of what makes one human), just as you or I would put on a coat. So you can drop the Jesus died silliness.

LonnieOwesn1973 · Post by **LonnieOwesn1973** » Sun Dec 08, 2019 4:55 pm

Philip wrote: ↑Sun Dec 08, 2019 4:37 pm Lonnie, you aren't being honest - you are deliberately avoiding the explanation of Jesus' BODY dying, in Rick's link - because it shows your argument to have no merit! Of course GOD cannot die. But Jesus was BOTH God and man. What died was his earthly body. But God is SPIRIT (John 4:24). JESUS did not die, but His body did. Your explanation would suggest that when His body died that Jesus Himself ceased to exist. When you, I or any human died our spirits will still exist - either eternally with or without God. When Jesus became human, growing His earthly body in His earthly mother's womb, this was not the beginning of His existence - as He is eternal. And His spirit put on the cloak of humanity (flesh, mind, etc. - every aspect of what makes one human), just as you or I would put on a coat. So you can drop the Jesus died silliness.

yes God is spirit therefore God cannot die.. I am being completely Honest.... if Jesus is All human and all God then what does that make him???

Therefore if, according to the Doctrine of the Holy Trinity Jesus is God and therefore God cannot Die... you cannot exist one without the other... you cannot serve two masters, either you are with God until the end or your not...

I am being completely Honest...

LonnieOwesn1973 · Post by **LonnieOwesn1973** » Sun Dec 08, 2019 4:59 pm

Point of Fact... the entire discussion is, Was Jesus God? if a person cannot come up with their own reasoning, based upon facts found in scripture than they do not believe it themselves...

Doctrin of the Trinity. The Father is not the Son, the Son is not the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit is not the Father but all are God.... Jesus being God would mean that God died on the cross.. period.. no excuses now circumventing things...

Either you believe that Jesus is God then your beliefs would be that God can die.... Sorry but that doctrin does not stand up to scripture and the Belief that Jesus was the God of Genesis...

LonnieOwesn1973 · Post by **LonnieOwesn1973** » Sun Dec 08, 2019 5:03 pm

Give you a hint... what happens to our souls when we die??? our souls are immortal and can never die .. eternity is never ending and whether we end up in Heaven or in Hell we will never die... So again, how can God die??? and I can explain why our souls are immortal as well... wait a minute I already explained that as well just no one has bothered to read my posts and digest what I have to say...

LonnieOwesn1973 · Post by **LonnieOwesn1973** » Sun Dec 08, 2019 5:15 pm

Acts 5:5,10 they both gave up the Ghost and were buried... come on.. if Jesus Gave up the Ghost he died just the same as the Man and woman in Acts... but they weren't resurrected???

Post by **Philip** » Sun Dec 08, 2019 5:16 pm

Lonnie, JESUS die NOT die - but His BODY did. God is spirit. Before Jesus took on human form, He did not have human form. So after His human form died, His Godness existed exactly as it always had. NOTHING of what Jesus as GOD is - died. Only His flesh - which was miraculously resurrected. So quit saying Jesus / God - Whom is SPIRIT - died. As His Spirit has always eternally existed. Either you don't understand the doctrine of the Trinity, or you are deliberately distorting what it teaches.

LonnieOwesn1973 · Post by **LonnieOwesn1973** » Sun Dec 08, 2019 5:20 pm

Philip wrote: ↑Sun Dec 08, 2019 5:16 pm Lonnie, JESUS die NOT die - but His BODY did. God is spirit. Before Jesus took on human form, He did not have human form. So after His human form died, His Godness existed exactly as it always had. NOTHING of what Jesus as GOD is - died. Only His flesh - which was miraculously resurrected. So quit saying Jesus / God - Whom is SPIRIT - died. As His Spirit has always eternally existed. Either you don't understand the doctrine of the Trinity, or you are deliberately distorting what it teaches.

not distorting anything.... the only way anyone can prove what you are saying is to utilize the Book of Enoch and even then you couldn't prove he was God...
but you are correct on one thing God did not die...

LonnieOwesn1973 · Post by **LonnieOwesn1973** » Sun Dec 08, 2019 5:21 pm

And I'm not the one saying God died... he is either God or he isn't... plain and simple...

Post by **Philip** » Sun Dec 08, 2019 5:48 pm

Lon: And I'm not the one saying God died... he is either God or he isn't... plain and simple...

And you know Rick and I aren't saying Jesus died other than His body did. No Trinity doctrinal point states that Jesus spirit ceased to exist upon His physical death. It's a strawman argument you are redundantly repeating.

Now you are irrelevantly referring to a non-canonical book (Enoch) - which, by the way, no scholar believes was written by the actual Enoch of Scripture. No one knows WHO wrote it, nor if what is in it is historically truth, partly so, mostly fiction - we just don't and can't know. But the rest of Scripture came from either God's hand-picked prophets, Jesus, one of His apostles, or a close and know associate of one. God didn't put out mystery books from unvalidated / supposed prophets or people asserting to speak as inspired by God!

Before all of this, you argued relentlessly that Jesus couldn't be both the Son of God AND also God Himself. And yet Isaiah 9 refutes this:

" For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."

So, clearly, Isaiah prophecied a human child would be born, "a SON," and one of His GOD names would be "The Mighty God." And you've gone on and on about this point - totally refuted. And that prophesied Son, for the prophecy to have been fulfilled, it would have HAD to have been fulfilled before the Jewish Temple / State and sacrificial system ended with the sacking of Jerusalem in AD 70.

You don't believe what Isaiah 9, not John 1, etc., etc. say, and now you're hanging your hat on "Jesus can't be God because He died" - knowing full well we are not saying Jesus died in the same sense you are. Face it, you simply fail to believe what the Bible actually says about Jesus.

But at least stop your strawmen arguments!

LonnieOwesn1973 · Post by **LonnieOwesn1973** » Sun Dec 08, 2019 6:10 pm

Do explain how Isaiah solidifies it when it was Isaiah was the one who said it but yet God said the Childs name was to be Immanuel but instead of that it was told to Joseph that the Childs name would be Jesus... The only part if the prophecy that was fulfilled was that of a virgin birth...

Ok the Trinity states he is God and the fact that he died states he is not... If Isaiah said Jesus was God then that would mean that God died... I do not ascribe to the death of God... I'm sorry if that offends you and I do not utilize the Book of Enoch lol I said the only way to even prove Jesus was with God from the beginning woyld be to use the book.. Sorry to burst your bubble but if you prescribe to the Trinity then you also believe God can die... Giving up the ghost does not prove the separation of God from the Mortal body it just means Jesus died and not God...

When God breathed the breath of life into Adam God gave a part of himself so that man can live...

Try reading the whole Bible and not just the parts you think support the Trinity...

Do not insult my intelligence because you choose to not form your own opinion based on scripture...

Nessa · Post by **Nessa** » Mon Dec 09, 2019 2:06 am

Rick, God sent Lonnie here to make you appreciate Kenny

Evidence for God from Science