Ben Shapiro on Beto

[Fliegender]

There's a difference. Let me put it this way.

Do you go to church? Let's pretend you do.
Let's say your old pastor retired and a new guy took over. He starts off well but soon goes on rants about black people and stirs racial divide in his sermons.

Would you stay in such a church? Let alone stay in it for years on end?

I know I wouldn't and surely any right minded person probably wouldn't either, but what say you? ...

My wife reminded me that we know two VIPs in the arts, an actor and a singer. The singer is a man I know quite well because I meet him once a month for lunch. We’re not friends; I would call our relationship a "close acquaintance". Now, I know this guy is homophobic. I mean he really hates gays. A lot. I recently saw him on a TV show where the concept is to visit a famous person’s first home, or the home that marked his youth. On the show, my "close acquaintance" was taken to his childhood home and got to see the inside. The present owners - whom he met on TV - were girly gays. By this I mean they are the type of homosexuals that leave no doubt as to their sexual orientation. As I watched the show, I smiled as my singer acquaintance chatted amiably and joked around with the two locas. I laughed out loud knowing full well what he really thought of people like them.

Now, this is something you obviously don’t understand even though I’ve explained it to you before. Let me try again: people in the public eye do things to further their careers because their success depends on their public’s perception of them.. So, my singer with the two girly gays, Obama with his crazed black pastor and Trump with the pretty pastorette are doing what is expected of them by their public, their fans. It may have nothing - nothing! - to do with what they actually think is "correct". They don’t act the way someone like you or I will act because they have different motivations. Get it???

[Philip]

FlieG: They don’t act the way someone like you or I will act because they have different motivations. Get it???

Because they are phony hypocrites that are constantly pandering, with a different face for whatever audience they are desiring to influence at the time!

[Fliegender]

FlieG: They don’t act the way someone like you or I will act because they have different motivations. Get it???

Because they are phony hypocrites that are constantly pandering, with a different face for whatever audience they are desiring to influence at the time!

Some may be hypocrites, the present POTUS comes immediately to mind...but most people in the public eye are just doing a job. A job that is very unlike what most other people do. Celebrities invited on talk shows are paid to appear. They are working while on the show, they are not “guests”. They know how to behave when doing their job. What sane person says stupid things at work? Smiling and being diplomatic isn’t hypocrisy, it’s common sense if your livelihood depends on it.

[Stu]

There's a difference. Let me put it this way.

Do you go to church? Let's pretend you do.
Let's say your old pastor retired and a new guy took over. He starts off well but soon goes on rants about black people and stirs racial divide in his sermons.

Would you stay in such a church? Let alone stay in it for years on end?

I know I wouldn't and surely any right minded person probably wouldn't either, but what say you? ...

My wife reminded me that we know two VIPs in the arts, an actor and a singer. The singer is a man I know quite well because I meet him once a month for lunch. We’re not friends; I would call our relationship a "close acquaintance". Now, I know this guy is homophobic. I mean he really hates gays. A lot. I recently saw him on a TV show where the concept is to visit a famous person’s first home, or the home that marked his youth. On the show, my "close acquaintance" was taken to his childhood home and got to see the inside. The present owners - whom he met on TV - were girly gays. By this I mean they are the type of homosexuals that leave no doubt as to their sexual orientation. As I watched the show, I smiled as my singer acquaintance chatted amiably and joked around with the two locas. I laughed out loud knowing full well what he really thought of people like them.

Now, this is something you obviously don’t understand even though I’ve explained it to you before. Let me try again: people in the public eye do things to further their careers because their success depends on their public’s perception of them.. So, my singer with the two girly gays, Obama with his crazed black pastor and Trump with the pretty pastorette are doing what is expected of them by their public, their fans. It may have nothing - nothing! - to do with what they actually think is "correct". They don’t act the way someone like you or I will act because they have different motivations. Get it???

I'm sorry but this is a complete and utter failure of logic.

You said: people in the public eye do things to further their careers because their success depends on their public’s perception of them..

Right, that makes sense and I agree.

However where it falls flat in this scenario is that you are saying Obama chose to have a divisive race-hating pastor, motivations as you put it. If politicians do things to further their career then he wilfully chose Jeremiah Wright as his pastor. Because as you say they have an image to put out.

Whjy didn't he choose a non-controversial pastor, he could've chosen anyone, but he chose Jeremiah Wright.

So then if he chose this pastor as his pastor we can then make judgements on Obama because of the pastor he chose, which in this case is a white-hating, divisive man. And the fact that Obama chose to stay with him all these years reflects on Obama and his character if he was willing to sit through all his hateful sermons.

Like I said if it was you or me, or any sane normal thinking Christian, as soon as the hate appeared in his sermons we would have left not long after. I would hate to go to church to be fed such poison when a church is meant as a place of love, empathy, joy and worship.

[Fliegender]

I don’t know why Obama chose the pastor he did, nor do I care. I don’t even know if he listened whenever he went to church. Maybe the congregation was good for his image? was it good to be seen there by his public and supporters? I can’t imagine Trump paying much attention in church either...except to watch the clock on the wall.

Politicians in the USA must confess to some sort of religious mumbo jumbo because the public expects it of them and for no other reason. You won’t see this idiocy in any other Western democracy. Where else do you see it? In authoritarian theocracies like Saudi and Iran...and in authoritarian pseudo-democracies like Turkey and Indonesia. Do you think the leaders of countries like France, Germany and Switzerland are expected to give an account of their religious beliefs to the media? Of course not! As long as a politician is expected to go to church by his electorate you’ll have bizarre situations.

[Philip]

FlieG: Politicians in the USA must confess to some sort of religious mumbo jumbo because the public expects it of them and for no other reason.

Of course politicians cynically use all kinds of religious self-identification to help them politically per voters perceptions. But a politician can also identify themself as a Christian whose faith in God is important to them - AND IT'S SINCERE! And if sincere, I wouldn't expect them to constantly bring it into political rallies or comments (like Ted Cruz!). Our faith is supposed to be public - just not traded upon like any other insincere trappings a politician might wrap themself in. In fact, I would say that a considerable majority of ALL Americans would rather NOT hear about a politician's faith. But in certain areas, of course, that's important to them. But I gotta tell ya, if there are two quality, capable politicians running for the same office, and one of them is a Christian, but the other one isn't - I'll vote for the Christian every time! So, while I don't expect nor want to hear someone insincerely and constantly push their faith (or supposed faith), I do like knowing of it - as what one believes on a spiritual level does often tells me something about their world view and what values they respect. But that's not always perfect and we can't know a heart. But we can see what level of maturity a politician claiming faith exhibits, or if he tries to sell himself because of it.

[Fliegender]

Of course politicians cynically use all kinds of religious self-identification to help them politically per voters perceptions. But a politician can also identify themself as a Christian whose faith in God is important to them - AND IT'S SINCERE! And if sincere, I wouldn't expect them to constantly bring it into political rallies or comments (like Ted Cruz!). Our faith is supposed to be public - just not traded upon like any other insincere trappings a politician might wrap themself in. In fact, I would say that a considerable majority of ALL Americans would rather NOT hear about a politician's faith. But in certain areas, of course, that's important to them. But I gotta tell ya, if there are two quality, capable politicians running for the same office, and one of them is a Christian, but the other one isn't - I'll vote for the Christian every time! So, while I don't expect nor want to hear someone insincerely and constantly push their faith (or supposed faith), I do like knowing of it - as what one believes on a spiritual level does often tells me something about their world view and what values they respect. But that's not always perfect and we can't know a heart. But we can see what level of maturity a politician claiming faith exhibits, or if he tries to sell himself because of it.

I’m sure a lot of Christians would vote for a Christian. Problem is, none will be running. None are on the horizon either. The last genuine Christian was George W. Bush but people didn’t like him for a variety of reasons. Whatever...

My original point which got Stu stewing was that the last statesman as POTUS was Obama. Whether you liked Obama or not is irrelevant here. He was a statesman and still acts like a statesman. In contrast, Trump is a backyard bully: he’s vulgar, he uses intimidation and is narcissistic. Both men can get The Job done but only one seems to have been taught good manners by his parents.

[RickD]

FL wrote:
Both men can get The Job done but only one seems to have been taught good manners by his parents.

Considering the fact that Obama barely knew his father, I don’t think that Barack Sr. taught Junior a whole lot.

Maybe his daddy issues are to blame for his ties to communism.

[Fliegender]

FL wrote:
Both men can get The Job done but only one seems to have been taught good manners by his parents.

Considering the fact that Obama barely knew his father, I don’t think that Barack Sr. taught Junior a whole lot.

Maybe his daddy issues are to blame for his ties to communism.

That’s right. Obama had a crappy dad. He was a jerk but if you’re looking for communisses...hey, where’s Ed?

Ties to communism are probably just as bad as ties to Russian strongmen and oligarchs...