Forgiveness without repentance?

[Nessa]

This whole complaint experience has left me thinking about forgiveness.

I always assumed that for a Christian, forgiveness is unconditional but is it?

At the moment reading through..


https://www.biola.edu/blogs/good-book-b ... nce-part-1

[Nessa]

Also it's not just about repentance but there is no actual acknowledgement of wrong doing.

So many times in the OT, God seems to say something like 'If only you would acknowledge what you have done' etc.

My problem is the complete denial of actual events that took place or words said. Not just that they aren't sorry.

[Philip]

God had every right to assert His covenant people admit their sins - but we are not God. Forgiveness doesn't mean we forget, only that we forgive. And forgiveness frees one from harboring and obsessing over people's sin against us. It is effectively freeing, even if the transgressor remains unrepentant toward us. Unforgiveness can keep one emotionally and spiritually In agony and internal turmoil! Let it GO, Ness, give it over to God and seek His help in forgiving, and thus, healing!

[Nessa]

God had every right to assert His covenant people admit their sins - but we are not God. Forgiveness doesn't mean we forget, only that we forgive. And forgiveness frees one from harboring and obsessing over people's sin against us. It is effectively freeing, even if the transgressor remains unrepentant toward us. Unforgiveness can keep one emotionally and spiritually In agony and internal turmoil! Let it GO, Ness, give it over to God and seek His help in forgiving, and thus, healing!

You just had to say those three little words...

[RickD]

Nessa,

In your situation, forgiveness is for you. You should forgive, so this whole thing doesn’t eat you up inside.

Give it to God. Let Him deal with it.

[PaulSacramento]

Forgiveness is, in some ways, a gift we give ourselves.
When we forgive another for a wrong they have done us, we release OURSELVES from carrying around the emotional baggage of what they have done.
Only forgiveness starts the healing process.
It's the hardest thing to do BUT the one thing we MUST do, in order to move on.
Why allow what someone has done or said to stop us from going on? from growing? why allow what someone has done to contaminate us? to change us?

[Philip]

Great to see Paul back!!! We've missed his input around here.

Rick: Nessa, In your situation, forgiveness is for you. You should forgive, so this whole thing doesn’t eat you up inside.

Give it to God. Let Him deal with it.

Rick is absolutely right! And remember, forgiveness - which Christ says to do - if its ability to heal US were dependent upon our offender first desiring it and admitting their transgressions, showing regret, etc., then we would still be under their "power" to continually hurt us over their past actions and words. Forgiveness bypasses whatever reaction of transgressor and doesn't even need it - nor should it.

[Nessa]

Oh well, I guess I will give up looking for a loop hole then that gets me out of forgiving him

But seriously, it's not just about me. He does workshops around NZ teaching other psychologists and is in full time private practice. He really isn't accountable to anyone here apart from God and he is a mormon.

So, it's also about the fact what he has done to me won't just stop at me.

[Philip]

Ness, kinda sounds like you've done all you could to expose him. So, just forgive and let go of it. Because as hard and as counterintuitive that may seem, it's ultimately far easier than continously carrying around an enormous sack of ongoing hurt!

[PaulSacramento]

One of the hardest things for us to do is to "let it go".
Christ said to give unto Caesar what is Caesar's and to give unto Satan what is Satan's.
Not even God can stop people from being bad, can stop people from believing what they want, regardless of what is present to them.
Free Will.
Remember, there were those that SAW what Jesus did, witnessed the miracles and heard the teachings, LIVE and yet, they choose not to believe.
If God can't open the eyes of those that want their eyes shut, can we ?

[Philip]

Paul: If God can't open the eyes of those that want their eyes shut, can we ?

I don't believe it's a matter that God can't do something - or ANYTHING, actually - because He's sovereign and all-powerful. I think it's more so that as He is the One who decided to give us us our free will, His Holy values also respect it, as He will not force anyone to love Him! And isn't FORCED love an oxymoron - as forced love would not be authentic! God didn't create programmed robots. But I do believe that God will take away any LEGITIMATE excuses for unbelief that would provide a person with an excuse of why they don't or can't currently believe. And the reasons for unbelief he lets unbelievers cling to are all self-created and maintained - again, merely are matters of the will.

I think there are two types of doubting unbelievers: Some have doubts - even serious ones - which they would sincerely like to know the truths relating to God and they are truly SEEKING the answers - but they STILL need God to open their minds and eyes to Himself. For such people, I believe God WILL open their eyes to whatever it is ANYONE truly needs to overcome their uncertainties and unbelief. But there is another type - and that is the person who embraces and CLINGS to their doubts and unbelief - only wanting to see what they've already convinced themselves of - as opposed to sincerely wanting to know the truth about God and His existence. And so that second type of person's unbelief is entirely self-maintained / self-serving and contained because they only want what THEY want - as they don't DESIRE whatever truths or insights might be gained concerning God. And so the second type will end up in a terrible eternity apart from the joy of spending it with the Lord, along with the awesome Forever that He has planned for those who will love Him!

[Kurieuo]

Also it's not just about repentance but there is no actual acknowledgement of wrong doing.

So many times in the OT, God seems to say something like 'If only you would acknowledge what you have done' etc.

My problem is the complete denial of actual events that took place or words said. Not just that they aren't sorry.

Reminds me of something that happened a few years back. Maybe you should read over your words to me then.

Re: Christ, God demonstrates His forgiveness is unconditional and open to all. He didn't wait for us to turn, because we never can fully. But rather, in Christ, came to wear the penalty due us. Now, we can receive God's love and forgiveness, rather than His righteous judgement and condemnation, but its only through Christ. Now just because some deny they've done wrong, or even that some sort of objective morality exists (except what aligns to their own subjective sentiments), such doesn't mean God's forgiveness isn't open and complete.

Sadly, some prefer to wear their own cross, due to perhaps pride or feeling they can be morally superioir than others, not knowing that such then forces God's hand to judge them accordingly when they fail and Paul (the Apostle) even says God will use their own conscience of their wrong-doing against them.

So then, as I wrote to you many years ago regarding my own situation, one can forgive, and forgive fully, but sadly (for those who'll miss out on your friendship and equally those who reject God's forgiveness) it takes two for a full reunion to take place. Those who can't even fess up to their own wrong-doing, and don't even see their own wrong / think it's all the other person, such creates a barrier that can't be gotten past. While reunion can't be had, you can honestly forgive them nonetheless.

What helped me, was praying to God, and then saying the words I forgive such and such and then naming everything I could think of which caused me angst. And even forgiving myself for stupid things I may have actually said or done. The moment I did that, there was a great release, and their power over me was snapped.

But then, sadly as you know in my own situation, full reunion doesn't seem possible here on earth. I see it will only take place hereafter when God lays everything bare of the what happened, who did what, etc and then we can just all finally be together. I look forward to that day.

[RickD]

Kurieuo wrote:
...The moment I did that, there was a great release, and their power over me was snapped...

Nessa,

This is a crucial point. People like the doctor use these tactics as a form of manipulation and control. Forgiveness is a way to release yourself from them having power over you.

[Nessa]

Yeah, you guys are right. It's just hard and diffinetly a process to work through.

I think the real issue is that I struggle to trust God with it so it makes it hard to let go.