I've been waiting for this, but somehow I'm still shocked...

[edwardmurphy]

First off, Absentee and Mail-In are basically the same thing.

Second, we've been using mail-in ballots for well over a century and it's been fine.

Third, since 2016 people have been screaming for Trump to secure our electoral process so if he really cared he'd have done it by now. These things are scheduled years in advance.

Fourth, if it's fine to reopen the economy and for my wife and children to return to school (or have our federal funding withheld) then it's also fine to hold an election.

There are a lot more things I could list - voter suppression, gerrymandering, repeated Republican acknowledgements that they can't win if everyone gets to vote, and so forth - but I doubt anyone's reading at this point.

And yeah, I know you're sick of me saying this stuff, but it's still true. Donald J. Trump has a tiger by the tail and he'll do whatever he can, legal or otherwise, to stay in office. That should scare you as much as it does me.

[edwardmurphy]

Also this. Please, watch the whole interview. It's less than 4 minutes long.

[DBowling]

I'm not surprised or shocked...

Trump sees the handwriting on the wall, and he's just throwing out another false narrative in an attempt to delegitimize the results of the upcoming 2020 election in the hearts and minds of the "Fifth Avenue Faithful" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qC16c98hDPc)

The fact that he's not bragging about how he's going to be reelected in the greatest landslide in American history tells you something.

[RickD]

[edwardmurphy]

See, this is what I'm talking about, Rick. The President of the United States says that:

1) We have to open the economy.

2) We have to send the kids back to school.

3) We have to postpone the election.

And you, a supposedly patriotic American, denigrate my concerns as TDS. How many presidents can you think of who have attacked the legitimacy of the democratic process and floated postponing the election, Rick? Go ahead and list them. Un-[love]-believable.

[Kurieuo]

Trump knows how to troll his opponents.

[RickD]

See, this is what I'm talking about, Rick. The President of the United States says that:

1) We have to open the economy.

2) We have to send the kids back to school.

3) We have to postpone the election.

And you, a supposedly patriotic American, denigrate my concerns as TDS. How many presidents can you think of who have attacked the legitimacy of the democratic process and floated postponing the election, Rick? Go ahead and list them. [love].

[DBowling]

And you, a supposedly patriotic American, denigrate my concerns as TDS.

I hope you realize that "TDS" is nothing more than a meaningless Trumpian insult.
Since that particular term is used by people who get their information from specific sources, the use of that term tells you more about the person doing the insulting than the person being insulted.
It's also interesting to note how often that particular meaningless insult is used as a weapon to either dismiss or combat facts and reality.

[RickD]

And you, a supposedly patriotic American, denigrate my concerns as TDS.

I hope you realize that "TDS" is nothing more than a meaningless Trumpian insult.
Since that particular term is used by people who get their information from specific sources, the use of that term tells you more about the person doing the insulting than the person being insulted.
It's also interesting to note how often that particular meaningless insult is used as a weapon to either dismiss or combat facts and reality.

[edwardmurphy]

I hope you realize that "TDS" is nothing more than a meaningless Trumpian insult.
Since that particular term is used by people who get their information from specific sources, the use of that term tells you more about the person doing the insulting than the person being insulted.
It's also interesting to note how often that particular meaningless insult is used as a weapon to either dismiss or combat facts and reality.

Yeah, I know. The part I find maddening is that so many Americans, when confronted with uncomfortable facts and frightening implications, choose to hide behind empty one liners. It's been a long, long time since American politics were civil, but my god, the quality of discourse coming from so called conservatives has decreased alarmingly over the last 3 years. We used to disagree about policy. Now it's all "pandemics are a Democrat plot," "masks are tyranny," and "Q is the only source I trust." A representative democracy cannot function if 40% of the voting population base their thinking on alternative facts. So when Rick and K and who all ever insist that being alarmed when the President floats postponing the election is just an indication of TDS it's beyond frustrating. Their idiotic response to an unprecedented threat to our democracy represents a much broader trend.

On the positive side, not everybody is too obtuse to see the threat.

BTW, Rick, I know that Trump lacks the authority to postpone the election. The threat is his continuing efforts to undermine the results so that he can build a grievance movement out of the ashes. We can't have that. We need people to be able to vote and to trust the results. We need smooth transitions of power. We need the losing candidate to gracefully step aside. Trump is signalling that if he loses he'll respond with charges of voter fraud, demand a recount, file a dozen lawsuits, and make sure he leaves the country in flames when he finally stomps back to Manhattan.

[DBowling]

The part I find maddening is that so many Americans, when confronted with uncomfortable facts and frightening implications, choose to hide behind empty one liners. It's been a long, long time since American politics were civil, but my god, the quality of discourse coming from so called conservatives has decreased alarmingly over the last 3 years.

I hope you don't throw all "so called conservatives" in the same bag. You know I am a conservative. And I know that you and I have strong disagreements on a number of issues (the Supreme Court, the economy, religious freedoms and protection, etc...). But I have generally tried to avoid resorting to meaningless insults in our discussions.

But who knows, in a public Christian forum like this, I probably blow it on occasion.
The sad thing is... when I do blow it, it not only reflects badly on me, but as a follower of Jesus it also reflects badly on the One I claim to serve.

I may be being naive, but I hope and pray that once Trump exits stage left, the party of Lincoln and Reagan will return and the toxic level of political discord in our country will diminish enough to break though the deadlock that has currently paralyzed our government.

[edwardmurphy]

I hope you don't throw all "so called conservatives" in the same bag. You know I am a conservative. And I know that you and I have strong disagreements on a number of issues (the Supreme Court, the economy, religious freedoms and protection, etc...). But I have generally tried to avoid resorting to meaningless insults in our discussions.

When I said "so called conservatives" I meant Trumpies. They claim to be conservative, but they'll jettison their principles at the drop of a hat for a quick buck or a short term advantage, or even just to trigger the libs. They see politics as a zero sum game, they want to win at all costs, and if that means making excuses for an incompetent, authoritarian buffoon then so be it.

I regard you as an actual thoughtful, principled, patriotic conservative. I think that you and I want pretty much the same things for our country, but we have different views on how to get there. You seem to favor free market capitalism, unfettered by government regulation. I like capitalism too, but I think that a free market must be kept free by strong regulatory bodies or it will devolve into stagnation and cronyism. You and I would pick different Supreme Court justices, but I think we can agree that the SCOTUS should be an independent and coequal branch. We might butt heads about religious freedom, but it would be about the details, not about the concept as a whole. Long story short, if guys like you were in charge of the country I'd be a vocal critic of some of your policies, but I wouldn't fear for my children's future.

But who knows, in a public Christian forum like this, I probably blow it on occasion.
The sad thing is... when I do blow it, it not only reflects badly on me, but as a follower of Jesus it also reflects badly on the One I claim to serve.

Maybe you do, but I haven't noticed. I blow it all the time. It only reflects badly on me, but that's still a problem. I'm trying.

I may be being naive, but I hope and pray that once Trump exits stage left, the party of Lincoln and Reagan will return and the toxic level of political discord in our country will diminish enough to break though the deadlock that has currently paralyzed our government.

If you haven't read the Bulwark I encourage you to check it out. Recently there's been some lively debate over that topic, among others.

[RickD]

Ed wrote:
When I said "so called conservatives" I meant Trumpies. They claim to be conservative, but they'll jettison their principles at the drop of a hat for a quick buck or a short term advantage, or even just to trigger the libs. They see politics as a zero sum game, they want to win at all costs, and if that means making excuses for an incompetent, authoritarian buffoon then so be it.

Ed,

I live in the heart of Trump country. There are some people here that are real “Trumpies” as you call them. But most of the people I talk to, have similar feelings that I do, when it comes to trump. I think the “Trumpies” are the highly vocal minority. The majority of those who voted for Trump, just go about their lives and don’t run around with Trump flags.

Many of us are conservative patriots who weren’t thrilled with Trump being the only option we had to defeat Clinton. But we realized that life is seldom about being able to choose a perfect candidate. We also realize that when given the choice between two imperfect candidates, we choose the one who has a lesser chance of taking the country in the direction that we don’t want. Kinda like the true patriots in WW2 realized that we needed Stalin on our side, so we all don’t have to live under Nazi rule.

Ed,

You and DBowling have nothing in common politically. Other than you both despise Trump.

[abelcainsbrother]

See, this is what I'm talking about, Rick. The President of the United States says that:

1) We have to open the economy.

2) We have to send the kids back to school.

3) We have to postpone the election.

And you, a supposedly patriotic American, denigrate my concerns as TDS. How many presidents can you think of who have attacked the legitimacy of the democratic process and floated postponing the election, Rick? Go ahead and list them. [love].

You're lying show us in that tweet where Trump said he was going to delay the election. Go ahead we are waiting. This is what you and the left do all the time and that is take Trump out of context.This is why nobody believes the MSM or anything the left sais about Trump. Because it is all lies. I hope you know that you Trump haters cannot reach enough people now to effect things poltically anymore. If you add up all of the viewers and listeners of all liberal news outlets both on TV and online it is not enough people to effect things politically anymore. The ratings are down accross them all because of so much fake news. They are even laying off workers it has gotten so bad for them.They are destroying themselves because of so much fake new and people turn it off and ignore them. This is one way I'm confident Trump is going to be re-elected.

[abelcainsbrother]

Ed wrote:
When I said "so called conservatives" I meant Trumpies. They claim to be conservative, but they'll jettison their principles at the drop of a hat for a quick buck or a short term advantage, or even just to trigger the libs. They see politics as a zero sum game, they want to win at all costs, and if that means making excuses for an incompetent, authoritarian buffoon then so be it.

Ed,

I live in the heart of Trump country. There are some people here that are real “Trumpies” as you call them. But most of the people I talk to, have similar feelings that I do, when it comes to trump. I think the “Trumpies” are the highly vocal minority. The majority of those who voted for Trump, just go about their lives and don’t run around with Trump flags.

Many of us are conservative patriots who weren’t thrilled with Trump being the only option we had to defeat Clinton. But we realized that life is seldom about being able to choose a perfect candidate. We also realize that when given the choice between two imperfect candidates, we choose the one who has a lesser chance of taking the country in the direction that we don’t want. Kinda like the true patriots in WW2 realized that we needed Stalin on our side, so we all don’t have to live under Nazi rule.

Ed,

You and DBowling have nothing in common politically. Other than you both despise Trump.

It has been sad to see so many Christians take for granted the most pro-life person we have ever seen in office or President in President Trump.And especially when they have complained about it for years and claimed God is angry and is going to pour out judgment on America because of it,etc,etc,etc..... I mean for years Christians prayed for something to be done and Trump the least likely pro-life person of them all has totally blown them all away when it comes to being pro-life.And yet nothing from many Christians. I mean this was the one issue I doubted Trump on when I voted for him because he had been pro-choice for many years before he changed his mind and ran for President and he has been awesome and a man of his word.Planned Parenthood is living in fear because of Trump's actions.