Nostradamus

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Mon Jan 10, 2005 11:35 pm

Anyone know about Nostradamus, was he a prophet of any sort or not?

RGeeB · Post by **RGeeB** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 5:14 am

Prophet - someone who speaks for God. Nostradamus, it is claimed, predicted future events with accuracy.

God used Baalam to predict Jesus. I don't think its a norm for Him to use ungodly people though. Don't know about Nos' religious beliefs.

Felgar · Post by **Felgar** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 8:15 am

Was Balaam initially godly or not? Considering God spoke directly to him I had always assumed that he started out on the right path...

I've always considered Nostradamus a scam. It's possible he was in league with Satan though, but either way I don't think he was a prophet of God by any stretch. Are his predictions any more accurate than Jules Verne's? I'm not sure.

Perspective is so important. It's easy to look at some fairly vague descriptions of events and relate them to our current world - esspecially considering that we know worldy events so intimately now. And there's a lot of things happenning each day - surely some of them are going to match up.

To be fair though it's not like I've studied Nostradamus in detail - he goes into the pile of things I'm skeptical about and don't think it's worth my time to investigate. (right along with the Bible code before it was shown to be a hoax)

RGeeB · Post by **RGeeB** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 9:21 am

I don't think a created being can be omniscient or know the future, unless revealed by God - That includes heavenly creatures like angels and demons. Sure, demons know that they are destined for torment, but don't know the full picture. I am inclined to think that Revelation (in Bible) was as much apocalyptic to Satan to read about his future, as was to St John.

When voluntarily limiting Himself to physical laws, didn't Jesus Himself say that He didn't know about when things would happen?

Felgar · Post by **Felgar** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 10:00 am

RGeeB wrote:I don't think a created being can be omniscient or know the future, unless revealed by God - That includes heavenly creatures like angels and demons. Sure, demons know that they are destined for torment, but don't know the full picture. I am inclined to think that Revelation (in Bible) was as much apocalyptic to Satan to read about his future, as was to St John.

When voluntarily limiting Himself to physical laws, didn't Jesus Himself say that He didn't know about when things would happen?

Not sure about Jesus - there is the account that only the father knows the time of his return, but that's an interesting account. Jesus certainly knew his upcomming fate on the cross. He could also read people's minds, etc.

Regarding Satan I agree that he cannot know the future. But given that he's extremely intelligent, very knowledgeable, and also that he has enormous influence on our world, I would say that he could predict the future with fairly decent accuracy. Most of Satan's future predictions could very well be directly brought to pass by Satan himself. Comments? (incidently I would be inclined to think that some fortune tellers act along with Satan in a similar way)

Along the same lines, did Satan understand that Jesus' death on the cross was actually his own defeat? I'm inclined to think that Satan had actually though he'd won....

Kurieuo · Post by **Kurieuo** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 5:51 pm

Give a fulfilled prophecy of Nostradamus here, and let's take a look at it. When I looked into him a while ago, I found one has to really read into his words to make them fit some event throughout history. Unlike many of the prophecies in the OT of Christ which make sense and are also recognized as Messianic by the Rabbis, I don't believe his are really that clear.

Kurieuo.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 8:02 pm

The words of Nostradamus are much like the words of the Bible...they can be applied to any situation under any circumstance and stretched to match the personal philosophies of anyone who believes in him.

I've always considered Nostradamus a scam

good on ya! Scams are relatively common today (televangelists, for example) and they were in Nostradamus's day as well.

It's possible he was in league with Satan though

There's a long stretch. A league with Satan? How do you join that league? Not that I'd want to...Satanism is just another religion to me, where the god is a powerful being called "nature's forces."

Perspective is so important. It's easy to look at some fairly vague descriptions of events and relate them to our current world - esspecially considering that we know worldy events so intimately now. And there's a lot of things happenning each day - surely some of them are going to match up.

You impressed me with this statement, Felgar...I'm pretty sure this applies to any religion or fortune teller or palmist or anything else that people believe for whatever reason.

Are there any agnostics/atheists left? Or were they all scared off by the new standards of the website?

It seems that everyone in this chat believes in a good Being called "God" and an evil being called "Satan," neither of which anyone has ever seen, heard (literally) smelled, felt (literally), or tasted (literally). I'm still curious as to where in science such beings can be placed...biology of invisible beings? Psychology of omnipotent invisible beings? Geology (fossil records) created by invisible beings? Last I checked, none of the schools I've attended offered any of those classes...I suppose it's only a matter of time, though. Skeptics are a rare thing these days.

Kurieuo · Post by **Kurieuo** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 8:43 pm

skoobieschnax wrote:The words of Nostradamus are much like the words of the Bible...they can be applied to any situation under any circumstance and stretched to match the personal philosophies of anyone who believes in him.

So easy to compare to the Bible without taking the time to examine particular cases isn't it Skoobs?

Sounds like a belief that you've never been skeptical of.

Kurieuo.

August · Post by **August** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 8:48 pm

The characteristics of a Biblical prophet include:
1. called by God, not voluntarily issuing prophesy
2. inspired by God, so merely repeating what is dictated by God
3. always comes true
4. don't always know what the prohesy means, but others with a gift to interpret can always explain the prophesy.

In the case of Nostradamus, I don't see too many of those apply.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 9:42 pm

Actually Nostradamus fits the criteria very well. Ok basically Nostradamus is a Christian Jew and was a very religious man. He claimed that certain people could indeed decipher his prophecies and that they were inspired from God. I don't see why everyone is so skeptical, personally what I believe to be true is that Nostradamus did infact predict various future events, even his own death. God reveals much to those who are very close to him. Here is his most famous prophecy:

Beasts ferocious from hunger will swim across rivers:
The greater part of the region will be against the Hister,
The great one will cause it to be dragged in an iron cage,
When the German child will observe nothing.

Keep in mind that every prophet ever was a Jew that believed in the Christ.

August · Post by **August** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 10:35 pm

How many of Nostradamus's prophecies came true? Not very many, according to my understanding. He would have been well familiar with the criteria, and would have claimed to be God-inspired to avoid prosecution.

"Born in Saint Rémy de Provence in the south of France, he was the son of either a Jewish grain dealer or a prosperous notary. He was Jewish by birth, but since the authorities of Provence insisted that Jews either move or convert to Catholicism, his family outwardly converted and practiced the Roman Catholic faith. As a child, Nostradamus showed an aptitude for mathematics and astronomy/astrology. In fact, his teachers were upset by his defence of Copernicus and astronomy/astrology. He studied medicine at the University of Montpellier, and finished his baccalaureate exams in 1525. The plague soon disrupted his schooling and he traveled around France helping cure the sick with ideas that included a better diet, clean bedding, clean water and clean streets. It was while Nostradamus was traveling that he met and exchanged information with various underground Renaissance doctors, alchemists, Kabbalists and mystics — a practice he would continue throughout most of his life."

I would stand skeptical of someone who aligned with mystics and Kabbalists.

If you choose to believe so be it, no reason to become enemies over this.

August · Post by **August** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 10:38 pm

Sorry, forgot this part:

"The use of occult language in his prophecies suggest a familiarity with Hermetic magic, which has parallels with Tantra and Shaivite Hinduism. Nostradamus studied the Jewish Kabbalah, as well as astrology, which formed much of the basis of his predictive technique.

In Sicily, he connected with Sufi mystics and read "The Elixir of Blissfulness" by Sufi master al-Ghazzali, who stated that every seeker must pass through seven valleys or "dark nights of the soul" which included knowledge, repentance, stumbling blocks, tribulations, thunders, the abyss, and the valley of hymns and celebration. Nostradamus also appears to have studied "De Mysteriis Aegyptorum" (concerning the mysteries of Egypt), a book on Chaldean and Assyrian magic written by Iamblichus, a 4th‑century neo-Platonist.

Nostradamus employed various techniques to enter the meditative state necessary to access future probabilities. For entering a trance state (theta brain frequency), he attempted the ancient methods of flame gazing, water gazing or even both simultaneously. These techniques are believed to still the mind and increase introspection. He also seems to have used a technique of sitting on a brass tripod and gazing into a brass bowl filled with water and various oils and spices, which, according to an interpretation of C1 Q1, is to be referred to as Branchus, a divinity sometimes equated to Apollo, or an ancient seer by that name. In the Epistle to Henry II Nostradamus says "I emptied my soul, brain and heart of all care and attained a state of tranquility and stillness of mind which are prerequisites for predicting by means of the brass tripod.""

I don't see this as being God-inspired, rather the opposite?

Mastermind · Post by **Mastermind** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 10:47 pm

You might want to give a credible source for that, lest somebody should believe you wrote it.

There is always the possibility of psychic ability, which is unrelated to outside interference (divine or demonic). Perhaps one of those ancient methods unlocked some dormant skills.

August · Post by **August** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 10:50 pm

Came from Wikipedia, I don't think they have an axe to grind. Websters Encyclopedia says pretty much the same thing.

Mastermind · Post by **Mastermind** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 10:53 pm

I have an axe to grind with both sources, but it is unrelated to the subject at hand so I'll leave it alone.