Reasons to Believe Biochemist on Covid-19 Vaccines' Safety

[RickD]

Thanks, Stu - I'll look into it. Weird thing is, they had been pretty careful about precautions, don't go out too much. This stuff just really sucks!

My wife has a coworker who got Covid. And the funny thing is that she wears every possible ppe, and is anal about hand washing, and is paranoid.

[Stu]

Thanks, Stu - I'll look into it. Weird thing is, they had been pretty careful about precautions, don't go out too much. This stuff just really sucks!

My wife has a coworker who got Covid. And the funny thing is that she wears every possible ppe, and is anal about hand washing, and is paranoid.

Ok, you asked for it You want a nice little rabbit hole, here is one on masks and their effectiveness. Now I think this is obviously about airborne viruses. Please watch to the end as the evidence mounts.

[RickD]

How’s this for irony...

People are dying after getting a Covid vaccine, and we’re being told that there’s no evidence of the vaccine causing death.

People are dying with Covid 19, and it’s listed as a Covid 19 death.

Is anyone really falling for this?

[RickD]

Healthcare worker dies after second dose of COVID vaccine.

Safe and effective. Nothing to see here. Move along.

[Stu]

Healthcare worker dies after second dose of COVID vaccine.

Safe and effective. Nothing to see here. Move along.

Wonder if cases like this will increase.

And they are making links to the vaccines with these deaths so why not with autism in young children, similar time frames.

What did you think on that mask video.

[RickD]

Stu wrote:
Wonder if cases like this will increase.

And they are making links to the vaccines with these deaths so why not with autism in young children, similar time frames.

What did you think on that mask video.

I still haven’t come to any conclusions whether or not masks work, especially when there’s really no way to practically wear them “properly” 100% of the time.

For me personally, over a year into this “pandemic”, I don’t wear a mask unless it’s required by a private business. And even then, if I walk into a private business with a door sign requiring masks, and I observe employees wearing their masks under their noses, I immediately take my mask off.

And yes, I think as the vaccinations ramp up, we’re going to see more deaths following vaccinations.

What’s also troubling to me lately, is the number of people I work with, who got the vaccine not for themselves, but to protect “vulnerable” people they live with. It’s troubling because someone is convincing them that by getting vaccinated, they are protecting others, EVEN THOUGH vaccine manufacturers and our government are saying that those who are vaccinated can still be carriers of the virus, and can transmit it to others. In theory, the vaccine is supposed to keep the one vaccinated from getting sick, not from being a transmitter.

[Philip]

Rick, I'm struggling to understand some of your logic here - and please don't take this personally.

You said: I still haven’t come to any conclusions whether or not masks work, especially when there’s really no way to practically wear them “properly” 100% of the time.

And you said: For me personally, over a year into this “pandemic”, I don’t wear a mask unless it’s required by a private business. And even then, if I walk into a private business with a door sign requiring masks, and I observe employees wearing their masks under their noses, I immediately take my mask off.

OK, fine - none of us really knows how effective wearing a mask is in any given situation. HOWEVER, that works two ways - because you also have absolutely NO way of knowing that wearing a mask ISN'T generally effective. So, as you don't/can't know that, why in the world wouldn't you at least take a simple precaution that might well be protecting other people? That just seems to be common sense. No, there are no guarantees, but you're gambling with the health of others that not wearing a mask is irrelevant, without knowing if that's true. This is starting to sound very much like a prideful / rebellious political stance with you - you don't like people or rules telling you what to do (and sometimes I don't either). But because wearing a mask sure isn't inconveniencing anyone and you're willing to risk spreading the virus when the mask might actually work, I would think you'd put aside personal preferences on the side of caution that you could well be preventing the spread of a serious, potentially fatal virus.

NO precaution ever has a built-in certainty as to its effectiveness or outcome - and it's unrealistic to expect certainty before implementing a precaution. Precautions are often prudently taken so as to at least personally and conscientiously do our best efforts at protecting ourselves and others. Because it's not always about US and our own (sometimes foolish) preferences.

[Stu]

Rick, I'm struggling to understand some of your logic here - and please don't take this personally.

You said: I still haven’t come to any conclusions whether or not masks work, especially when there’s really no way to practically wear them “properly” 100% of the time.

And you said: For me personally, over a year into this “pandemic”, I don’t wear a mask unless it’s required by a private business. And even then, if I walk into a private business with a door sign requiring masks, and I observe employees wearing their masks under their noses, I immediately take my mask off.

OK, fine - none of us really knows how effective wearing a mask is in any given situation. HOWEVER, that works two ways - because you also have absolutely NO way of knowing that wearing a mask ISN'T generally effective. So, as you don't/can't know that, why in the world wouldn't you at least take a simple precaution that might well be protecting other people? That just seems to be common sense. No, there are no guarantees, but you're gambling with the health of others that not wearing a mask is irrelevant, without knowing if that's true. This is starting to sound very much like a prideful / rebellious political stance with you - you don't like people or rules telling you what to do (and sometimes I don't either). But because wearing a mask sure isn't inconveniencing anyone and you're willing to risk spreading the virus when the mask might actually work, I would think you'd put aside personal preferences on the side of caution that you could well be preventing the spread of a serious, potentially fatal virus.

NO precaution ever has a built-in certainty as to its effectiveness or outcome - and it's unrealistic to expect certainty before implementing a precaution. Precautions are often prudently taken so as to at least personally and conscientiously do our best efforts at protecting ourselves and others. Because it's not always about US and our own (sometimes foolish) preferences.

Did you watch that video, some very compelling studies there. Did you see the graph when masks were mandatory compared to those places that weren't? The areas where masks were mandatory covid cases spiked and where they weren't it was a flatline. Interesting to say the least.

[DBowling]

Scientific Brief: Community Use of Cloth Masks to Control the Spread of SARS-CoV-2
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... -cov2.html

Seven studies have confirmed the benefit of universal masking in community level analyses: in a unified hospital system,38 a German city,39 a U.S. state,40 a panel of 15 U.S. states and Washington, D.C.,41,42 as well as both Canada43 and the U.S.44 nationally. Each analysis demonstrated that, following directives from organizational and political leadership for universal masking, new infections fell significantly. Two of these studies42,44 and an additional analysis of data from 200 countries that included the U.S.45 also demonstrated reductions in mortality.

[RickD]

Philip,

I’m assuming you’re asking why I don’t wear a mask if there’s a possibility that it may help others not get sick from me. If that’s not what you mean then please correct me.

If I go out in public without a mask on, I stay away from people, regardless of if they’re wearing a mask or not. Remember the recommendation that we should wear a mask if we CANNOT social distance?

So, I don’t go anywhere in public without a mask, when I can’t social distance.

Second, people with masks on tend to practice social distancing from me, when I don’t wear a mask. So they are social distancing AND they’re wearing a mask.

Does that sound like logical reasons? It’s not like I’m walking around without a mask, and going close to people coughing and sneezing on them.

Generally where I live, the people who are worried about contracting Covid, wear masks when not required to, and they stay away from others.

Again,

If someone is arguing that masks work, then wear a mask and stay away from others. It’s really not rocket surgery.

Edit:

This is starting to sound very much like a prideful / rebellious political stance with you - you don't like people or rules telling you what to do (and sometimes I don't either).

Will I be expecting an apology for your misreading me?

Edit again:

I just wanted to clarify that when I wear a mask in public when I can’t social distance, I mean indoors. In the heat and humidity of Florida, there’s no way to properly wear a mask outdoors most of the time.

[RickD]

Scientific Brief: Community Use of Cloth Masks to Control the Spread of SARS-CoV-2
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... -cov2.html

Seven studies have confirmed the benefit of universal masking in community level analyses: in a unified hospital system,38 a German city,39 a U.S. state,40 a panel of 15 U.S. states and Washington, D.C.,41,42 as well as both Canada43 and the U.S.44 nationally. Each analysis demonstrated that, following directives from organizational and political leadership for universal masking, new infections fell significantly. Two of these studies42,44 and an additional analysis of data from 200 countries that included the U.S.45 also demonstrated reductions in mortality.

Since social distancing isn’t mentioned in this link, I’m guessing that all studies shown are referring to instances only when social distancing isn’t possible?

Do you think it’s an accurate assumption on my part?

[DBowling]

Scientific Brief: Community Use of Cloth Masks to Control the Spread of SARS-CoV-2
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... -cov2.html

Seven studies have confirmed the benefit of universal masking in community level analyses: in a unified hospital system,38 a German city,39 a U.S. state,40 a panel of 15 U.S. states and Washington, D.C.,41,42 as well as both Canada43 and the U.S.44 nationally. Each analysis demonstrated that, following directives from organizational and political leadership for universal masking, new infections fell significantly. Two of these studies42,44 and an additional analysis of data from 200 countries that included the U.S.45 also demonstrated reductions in mortality.

Since social distancing isn’t mentioned in this link, I’m guessing that all studies shown are referring to instances only when social distancing isn’t possible?

Do you think it’s an accurate assumption on my part?

All the guidelines I've seen from medical professionals recommend masks in conjunction with social distancing (and frequent hand washing)

The only exception I've seen for masks is outdoors when I am by myself or with immediate family and not in a crowded area.
I do not wear a mask when I go outside for a walk or exercise by myself or with my wife, but whenever another person is in my general area I give them a wide berth when I do not have a mask.

When I am indoors or outdoors with a group of people, I follow the standard guidelines of wearing a mask and 6 ft social distancing as much as possible.

[RickD]

DBowling wrote:
All the guidelines I've seen from medical professionals recommend masks in conjunction with social distancing (and frequent hand washing)

The only exception I've seen for masks is outdoors when I am by myself or with immediate family and not in a crowded area.
I do not wear a mask when I go outside for a walk or exercise by myself or with my wife, but whenever another person is in my general area I give them a wide berth when I do not have a mask.

When I am indoors or outdoors with a group of people, I follow the standard guidelines of wearing a mask and 6 ft social distancing as much as possible.

I understand all of that. But the point I’m trying to make, is that since social distancing isn’t mentioned, I’ll assume it wasn’t in the study. And since it wasn’t taken into consideration in the study, the study is not really accurate. Just like the video Stu posted, there are too many variables to make it accurate. I’ll let you guys believe the studies you posted. I just don’t think either study convinces me.

[DBowling]

DBowling wrote:
All the guidelines I've seen from medical professionals recommend masks in conjunction with social distancing (and frequent hand washing)

The only exception I've seen for masks is outdoors when I am by myself or with immediate family and not in a crowded area.
I do not wear a mask when I go outside for a walk or exercise by myself or with my wife, but whenever another person is in my general area I give them a wide berth when I do not have a mask.

When I am indoors or outdoors with a group of people, I follow the standard guidelines of wearing a mask and 6 ft social distancing as much as possible.

I understand all of that. But the point I’m trying to make, is that since social distancing isn’t mentioned, I’ll assume it wasn’t in the study. And since it wasn’t taken into consideration in the study, the study is not really accurate. Just like the video Stu posted, there are too many variables to make it accurate. I’ll let you guys believe the studies you posted. I just don’t think either study convinces me.

OK... whatever works for you...

As for me...
When multiple subject matter experts who actually know what they are talking about come to a consensus opinion that is supported by multiple scientific studies, I am going to give more weight to their collective opinion than some random video on the internet.

my .02

[RickD]

DBowling wrote:
All the guidelines I've seen from medical professionals recommend masks in conjunction with social distancing (and frequent hand washing)

The only exception I've seen for masks is outdoors when I am by myself or with immediate family and not in a crowded area.
I do not wear a mask when I go outside for a walk or exercise by myself or with my wife, but whenever another person is in my general area I give them a wide berth when I do not have a mask.

When I am indoors or outdoors with a group of people, I follow the standard guidelines of wearing a mask and 6 ft social distancing as much as possible.

I understand all of that. But the point I’m trying to make, is that since social distancing isn’t mentioned, I’ll assume it wasn’t in the study. And since it wasn’t taken into consideration in the study, the study is not really accurate. Just like the video Stu posted, there are too many variables to make it accurate. I’ll let you guys believe the studies you posted. I just don’t think either study convinces me.

OK... whatever works for you...

As for me...
When multiple subject matter experts who actually know what they are talking about come to a consensus opinion that is supported by multiple scientific studies, I am going to give more weight to their collective opinion than some random video on the internet.

my .02

And a simple google search will show you multiple experts who say that the studies show masks don’t work. And multiple experts who are against the Covid vaccine.