The Ravi Zacharias Scandal

[Nessa]

The best way to decieve others is to be so deeply deceived yourself. I think it's far too simply to just see him as a really evil man.

The fact he could still do what he did and get up and preach and do the good things, shows more than just a man being sinister. Probably not everything he did was just to get something. His closest friends and family did see another side to Ravi that was most likely valid. They just never saw the whole man

[Philip]

Yep - it's just that some sins have so much more of a horrific impact than others do. It took a lot of courage for those women to come forward. I bet if Ravi could talk to us, he would say he should have had far-greater accountability in his life. And I agree, while terrible, Ravi, his ministry and books still have done much good. Yet, it hurts just to know about this - and I can't imagine how his family and others so horribly impacted must feel.

[Nessa]

I came across a really good saying that while it's always possible to wake a person who is asleep, no amount of noise will wake someone pretending to be asleep

I think Ravi wilfully chose to be obstinate. Maybe if he lived til 100, nothing would have changed. If God knew he would repent, maybe he would have lived.

[Philip]

Nessa: I think Ravi wilfully chose to be obstinate. Maybe if he lived til 100, nothing would have changed. If God knew he would repent, maybe he would have lived.

You know, I thought about that as well. Who knows. But I don't know if he could have handled his peers and family finding out about this. But how he ever thought he'd be able to keep hiding it away...

[Nessa]

I am not sure who was more honest.

Bill Clinton or Ravi.

I think technically by law Clinton could get away with saying what he did because it did not actually involve intercourse. But in the end he came out and told the truth.

Ravi never did and there's no evidence he ever would have, had he lived on.

[Kurieuo]

With power, comes little accountability. I'm sure there would have been others that knew, who are now hiding and keeping silent about knowing something was wrong. No one had the guts in the RZIM organisation to stand up to Ravi while he was alive, and so they waiting until he was dead to perform an investigation.

He was also surrounded by many Christian people, so the issue really is elsewhere imo -- not about being in Christian community, for it anything Ravi would have to serve as antithesis of such an argument I'd think.

That this happens over and over with leaders, the community nearly always rallies behind their leader. A bubble happens where those who respect their leaders or figures of prominence -- they will shield them from anyone who appears to attack them, until "that bubble" is burst. Such is not too different from "cults" really.

[Philip]

Yes, there is nothing necessarily magical about being in Christian community - AS LONG AS - someone or several in that community will call you out and stand up to the wrong or hurtful actions a Christian might be doing - AND there is a defined process in place for Scripturally dealing with it. But make no mistake, we are told in Scripture to do BOTH - to remain in constant Christian community AND to be accountable to each other PER the teachings of Christ and His apostles. Because it's not just accountability that's important, but more importantly, the beliefs and values of those holding you accountable.

In Ravi's organization, there were likely a small number of people who had direct knowledge of what the accusations were - at least to the degree that they could truly evaluate the truth of them. And it takes great courage to call someone out when it's connected to your paycheck and fear of losing a job. That's why churches and all organizations in which they are led by a "dictator / king" model, in which the top leader has no accountability, leaves them all vulnerable to such situations and intimidations. My lead pastor is accountable to the elders. And the elders aren't permanent - they have terms that expire for a period before they must be re-nominated and elected by church members. Dark stuff happens in backrooms and in secret meetings led by a person or persons with no accountability.

For Ravi's ministry to remain effective for Christ, I think there will need to be resignations and a new name and leadership, as well as public commitment to a new mission statement that is backed by a clear mandate for how such similar situations are to be held in the future. And that would start with, at FIRST knowledge of any accusation, it is mandated that the person bringing it forward (who is in the organization) be included in an immediate meeting in which key and MANDATED questions are asked and map of how an investigation will be put together AND followed up on with the results it produces. And if serious matters are found, that needs to be explained publicly and appropriate actions must be taken. That the pertinent questions WILL and ALWAYS be asked and properly investigated has to be number one. And an innocent person should always welcome such an inquiry, painful though it may be.

When I was much younger, I was in two different churches that had highly problematic leaders that caused terrible problems that were kept secret from the congregation and weren't dealt with, eventually resulting in devastating results that became common knowledge. And while it was a miserable experience and we were incredibly upset. But we didn't let it put us off of church. Instead, we just became determined to prayerfully seek a church with a healthy system of openness, accountability and theological soundness. It's like if you've been going to a restaurant that suddenly starts serving poor food and service - well, you don't just react by quitting ALL restaurants forever - no, you start looking elsewhere for quality service and food. And that's my advice for those emotionally or otherwise wounded by a negative church experience: Prayerfully and intentionally seek ANOTHER. Because otherwise the devil wins, as he's been able to manipulate a terrible experience into successfully isolating you from constant Christian fellowship, which Scripture teaches us to seek!

Sorry for the length.

[RickD]

This video is well worth the time it takes to watch.