The US NEVER Went To The Moon

[Stu]

Stu wrote:
What makes you say that apart from the flat earth stuff?

I was referring to his flat earth beliefs and teachings.

His believing in a flat earth, misrepresenting what others believe regarding the topic, and teaching this from a pulpit makes him a fruitcake nutjob.

Teaching that the Bible says the earth is flat, makes him a heretic and a false teacher.

I really don’t know anything about any of his other teachings.

But I’m going to guess that he probably teaches a works-based salvation. And I’m going to take a wild stab in the dark, and guess that he teaches the false gospel that one can lose salvation.

Usually false teachers have their false teachings rooted in a false gospel.

Edit:
From Dean Odle’s page:http://hstrial-dodle.homestead.com/VisionHistory.html


False teachers of a feather, flock together:

I was studying the Bible for hours each day and reading a lot of Kenneth E. Hagin books.

It just so happens that the Bible is a flat earth book. It mentions that the earth is immovable many times throughout.

The Hebrews taught the earth was flat.

Until not long ago some Bibles had a flat earth drawing with the firmament in place.

Heiser, a scholar of scholars says the Bible teaches flat earth, he just doesn't believe the Bible.

Pastor Odle teaches the complete opposite of a works based salvation. OSAS is not what Jesus taught, he gave many teachings which said the complete opposite, He warned that you must stay on the right path.

Just because you believe NASA and Einstein over the Bible doesn't make Dean a heretic. Preaching what the Bible says throughout makes him much closer to the truth than you.

You believe faulty science over the Bible.

NASA and the governments of this world are in control by the devil, but you are so quick to believe every word out of their mouth. Tesla called Einstein a fuzzy haired idiot who made up fancy equations far away from actual experiments.

Einstein even admits that he came up with his relativity theory because all EXPERIMENTS showed the earth was not moving, so he just done away with the ether even though it explained many other things in science.

Sorry but you don't get to judge others when your science is off by 1 to the power of 120, that's 1 with 120 zeros behind it, and you teach the day age theory. You have made the Bible fit into your faulty science rather than taking the Bible as factual.

Edit: And I know you'll say that Heiser doesn't teach that, well he does. Here is a piece from his article when he says just that.

Those of in the sane world might wonder where the question comes from. The answer is my work (not mine, really — just those ancient writers in the Bible whose worldview knew nothing of modern cosmology, space flight, celestial mechanics, etc.). I and other OT scholars (e.g., John Walton; see below) have written articles about the pre-modern cosmology of the biblical writers — about how the biblical text describes a round, flat earth, complete with a covering dome, to which were affixed the stars (which in turn were thought to be divine beings, or under the power of divine beings). That work is being used by leaders in the flat earth camp (yes, it exists — in the same neighborhood as ancient astronaut theorists) as proof of this view. My picture and links to my writings or lectures have been touted on Facebook and other hallowed learning communities creating the impression that I believe the earth is flat, not round.

Christians Who Believe the Earth is Really Flat — Does It Get Any Dumber Than This?

So he says the Bible teaches a flat earth, he just says that the writers didn't know any better. In other words the Bible was not God inspired because why would he inspire lies only to confuse later readers of the Bible who would then question the whole Bible.

2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,

And he better be careful of who he makes fun of, not only because the Bible is God inspired but because his so called science and cosmology is in complete disarray and they don't know up from down.




And you place this cosmology and science above the Bible??

[DBowling]

And you place this cosmology and science above the Bible??

No... I place cosmology and science above tradition and/or inaccurate interpretations of Scripture.

I strongly believe that Special Revelation (ie Scripture) and Natural Revelation (Science and History) when accurately understood will never come into conflict, since the same God is the source of both.

I have a very real concern about people, who are seeking the truth, coming to a site called God and Science, and seeing the flat earth lie equated with the truth of Scripture.
The Enemy can easily and effectively use the flat earth lie to convince people (falsely) that Scripture is full of lies and drive them away from the truth of Scripture and the Gospel.

That is why I am coming down so hard on the flat earth lie here.
Equating the flat earth lie with the truth of Scripture is harmful to those who have been deceived by the flat earth lie, because it damages their credibility as they attempt to communicate the truth of Scripture and the Gospel to a skeptical world.

[Stu]

And you place this cosmology and science above the Bible??

No... I place cosmology and science above tradition and/or inaccurate interpretations of Scripture.

I strongly believe that Special Revelation (ie Scripture) and Natural Revelation (Science and History) when accurately understood will never come into conflict.

I have a very real concern about people, who are seeking the truth, coming to a site called God and Science, and seeing the flat earth lie equated with the truth of Scripture.
The Enemy can easily and effectively use the flat earth lie to convince people (falsely) that Scripture is full of lies and drive them away from the truth of Scripture and the Gospel.

That is why I am coming down so hard on the flat earth lie here.
Equating the flat earth lie with the truth of Scripture is harmful to those who have been deceived by the flat earth lie, because it damages their credibility as they attempt to communicate the truth of Scripture and the Gospel to a skeptical world.

I don't have a problem with people questioning flat earth. I have a problem with people calling those who support it heretics, nutjobs and all the rest.

Flat earth is the same as the local vs global flood, or 7 days vs day age, or biblical evolution (but I mean seriously does anyone even still believe that) vs creation or any other biblical topic.

And for the record you don't know how many people have come to the Lord through flat earth, by seeing that what the Bible says is true and the Bible actually describes the flat earth.

And yes many come to Jesus through the Holy Spirit and the good work of other Christians who don't believe in a flat earth.

However the sad fact is that many many more people have been turned away from Christianity when they see the Christian world try to fit the Bible into what "science" deems is correct at any point in time. Gotta squish the Bible to fit every time the "science" changes.

[Stu]

I strongly believe that Special Revelation (ie Scripture) and Natural Revelation (Science and History) when accurately understood will never come into conflict, since the same God is the source of both.

Just wrong.

Science is man made, mistakes can and are made all the time. The theory of evolution is science, is God the source of it? Heck no. It's assumptions based on guesswork and a worldview. The theory of spontaneous generation was once science, was that of God too?

Science is our best guess at this point in time. It can change.

At one point according to cosmology we weren't the centre of the universe and held no special place in the universe. The Christian crowd accepted that and made the Bible fit that. Well now they are questioning that. Your "science" is in constant flux we don't know squat about the universe, it's one big frikken guess.

Like Michio says, we are off by a factor of 1 to the power of 120. But you still place faith in what these "scientists" say.

Axis of evil (cosmology)
The "Axis of Evil" is a name given to an anomaly in astronomical observations of the Cosmic Microwave Background (CMB). The anomaly appears to give the plane of the Solar System and hence the location of Earth a greater significance than might be expected by chance – a result which has been claimed to be evidence of a departure from the Copernican principle.

Lawrence Krauss is quoted as follows in a 2006 Edge.org article:[5]

But when you look at CMB map, you also see that the structure that is observed, is in fact, in a weird way, correlated with the plane of the earth around the sun. Is this Copernicus coming back to haunt us? That's crazy. We're looking out at the whole universe. There's no way there should be a correlation of structure with our motion of the earth around the sun – the plane of the earth around the sun – the ecliptic. That would say we are truly the center of the universe.

[DBowling]

I strongly believe that Special Revelation (ie Scripture) and Natural Revelation (Science and History) when accurately understood will never come into conflict, since the same God is the source of both.

Science is man made, mistakes can and are made all the time.

Which is why I bolded when accurately understood

I stand by the truth of my full statement.
Special Revelation (ie Scripture) and Natural Revelation (Science and History) when accurately understood will never come into conflict, since the same God is the source of both.

The theory of evolution is science, is God the source of it?

Many times on this forum I have provided scientific evidence that clearly demonstrates that "random mutation" (which we can observe and measure by science today) is an inadequate process for generating the code that we see in the DNA of life today and for generating the changes that we see in the fossil record.

So I think Natural Revelation (ie Science) is the enemy (not the friend) of Evolutionary theory that presumes the adequacy of random mutation and natural selection ALONE.

At one point according to cosmology we weren't the centre of the universe and held no special place in the universe. The Christian crowd accepted that and made the Bible fit that. Well now they are questioning that. Your "science" is in constant flux we don't know squat about the universe, it's one big frikken guess.

But the shape of the earth is not a 'guess'. From thousands and thousands of videos and pictures from multiple countries, satellites, spacecraft, space stations, etc (not to mention thousands of videos of ships and boats travelling over the horizon), we know what the earth looks like with precision. And it is NOT flat.
We know for a FACT that the earth is a globe.

This is why it is so damaging to the Gospel to equate the truth of Scripture with a known lie.

[RickD]

Stu wrote:
It just so happens that the Bible is a flat earth book. It mentions that the earth is immovable many times throughout.

Yes, you’re correct. And the Bible mentions that Jesus is a rock many times. So, from now on I’m going to pray to rocks. Only flat rocks though.

Stu wrote:
The Hebrews taught the earth was flat.

Yes, but that’s because they also believed in the NASA conspiracy. It was prophetic.

Stu wrote:
Until not long ago some Bibles had a flat earth drawing with the firmament in place.

True. And some bibles have pictures of Jesus as a blue eyed Western European. We know that’s inaccurate, because Jesus is really a rock.

Stu wrote:
Heiser, a scholar of scholars says the Bible teaches flat earth, he just doesn't believe the Bible.

Yes. Heiser believes in biblical inerrancy, and simultaneously believes that the Bible is wrong.

Stu wrote:
Pastor Odle teaches the complete opposite of a works based salvation. OSAS is not what Jesus taught, he gave many teachings which said the complete opposite, He warned that you must stay on the right path.

Osas is the complete opposite of a works based salvation, and the Heretical “pastor” Odle doesn’t teach OSAS.

Stu wrote:
Just because you believe NASA and Einstein over the Bible doesn't make Dean a heretic. Preaching what the Bible says throughout makes him much closer to the truth than you.

NASA is Satan. Einstein was the antichrist. Dean Odle is a full-fledged nutbag.

Stu wrote:
Einstein even admits that he came up with his relativity theory because all EXPERIMENTS showed the earth was not moving, so he just done away with the ether even though it explained many other things in science.

Einstein was part of the NASA conspiracy. And he was the antichrist. In numerology, the letters in Einstein’s name, equals 666.

Stu wrote:
Sorry but you don't get to judge others when your science is off by 1 to the power of 120, that's 1 with 120 zeros behind it, and you teach the day age theory. You have made the Bible fit into your faulty science rather than taking the Bible as factual.

Monster drinks are of the devil, and I have a voodoo doll of an old South African man, and I’m sticking pins in it as we speak. Does your buttocks hurt?

Stu wrote:
So he(Heiser) says the Bible teaches a flat earth, he just says that the writers didn't know any better. In other words the Bible was not God inspired because why would he inspire lies only to confuse later readers of the Bible who would then question the whole Bible.

That’s a completely accurate portrayal of what Heiser believes. It’s amazing how accurately you have represented Heiser, again.

Stu wrote:
And he (Heiser) better be careful of who he makes fun of, not only because the Bible is God inspired but because his so called science and cosmology is in complete disarray and they don't know up from down.

And he also doesn’t know flat from round.


Stu,

I appreciate how you never misrepresent what others believe. I am now convinced that you have a mental disorder that prohibits you from grasping basic logic. Is there a combination of autism and schizophrenia whereby people with the disorder have absolutely no grasp of reality, and absolutely no concept of basic logic?

[Stu]

Stu wrote:
It just so happens that the Bible is a flat earth book. It mentions that the earth is immovable many times throughout.

Yes, you’re correct. And the Bible mentions that Jesus is a rock many times. So, from now on I’m going to pray to rocks. Only flat rocks though.

Stu wrote:
The Hebrews taught the earth was flat.

Yes, but that’s because they also believed in the NASA conspiracy. It was prophetic.

Stu wrote:
Until not long ago some Bibles had a flat earth drawing with the firmament in place.

True. And some bibles have pictures of Jesus as a blue eyed Western European. We know that’s inaccurate, because Jesus is really a rock.

Stu wrote:
Heiser, a scholar of scholars says the Bible teaches flat earth, he just doesn't believe the Bible.

Yes. Heiser believes in biblical inerrancy, and simultaneously believes that the Bible is wrong.

Stu wrote:
Pastor Odle teaches the complete opposite of a works based salvation. OSAS is not what Jesus taught, he gave many teachings which said the complete opposite, He warned that you must stay on the right path.

Osas is the complete opposite of a works based salvation, and the Heretical “pastor” Odle doesn’t teach OSAS.

Stu wrote:
Just because you believe NASA and Einstein over the Bible doesn't make Dean a heretic. Preaching what the Bible says throughout makes him much closer to the truth than you.

NASA is Satan. Einstein was the antichrist. Dean Odle is a full-fledged nutbag.

Stu wrote:
Einstein even admits that he came up with his relativity theory because all EXPERIMENTS showed the earth was not moving, so he just done away with the ether even though it explained many other things in science.

Einstein was part of the NASA conspiracy. And he was the antichrist. In numerology, the letters in Einstein’s name, equals 666.

Stu wrote:
Sorry but you don't get to judge others when your science is off by 1 to the power of 120, that's 1 with 120 zeros behind it, and you teach the day age theory. You have made the Bible fit into your faulty science rather than taking the Bible as factual.

Monster drinks are of the devil, and I have a voodoo doll of an old South African man, and I’m sticking pins in it as we speak. Does your buttocks hurt?

Stu wrote:
So he(Heiser) says the Bible teaches a flat earth, he just says that the writers didn't know any better. In other words the Bible was not God inspired because why would he inspire lies only to confuse later readers of the Bible who would then question the whole Bible.

That’s a completely accurate portrayal of what Heiser believes. It’s amazing how accurately you have represented Heiser, again.

Stu wrote:
And he (Heiser) better be careful of who he makes fun of, not only because the Bible is God inspired but because his so called science and cosmology is in complete disarray and they don't know up from down.

And he also doesn’t know flat from round.


Stu,

I appreciate how you never misrepresent what others believe. I am now convinced that you have a mental disorder that prohibits you from grasping basic logic. Is there a combination of autism and schizophrenia whereby people with the disorder have absolutely no grasp of reality, and absolutely no concept of basic logic?

Ah right, so it's reached this point where all logic and basic debate technique goes out the window, only left with DB it seems.

[RickD]

stu wrote:
Ah right, so it's reached this point where all logic and basic debate technique goes out the window, only left with DB it seems.

It’s never been a debate. The issue is your denial of the basic fact that the earth is a sphere. Almost all of your points that I mocked in your last post are so ridiculous and inaccurate, that there’s no point in responding to them seriously. Your worldview here is not based in reality. The earth is demonstrably not flat. There is no NASA conspiracy. Heiser does not say that the Bible teaches a flat earth in the same sense that fact-denying flat earthers suggest.

For the sake of your family and loved ones, please seek help.

[Stu]

I strongly believe that Special Revelation (ie Scripture) and Natural Revelation (Science and History) when accurately understood will never come into conflict, since the same God is the source of both.

Science is man made, mistakes can and are made all the time.

Which is why I bolded when accurately understood

I stand by the truth of my full statement.
Special Revelation (ie Scripture) and Natural Revelation (Science and History) when accurately understood will never come into conflict, since the same God is the source of both.

The theory of evolution is science, is God the source of it?

Many times on this forum I have provided scientific evidence that clearly demonstrates that "random mutation" (which we can observe and measure by science today) is an inadequate process for generating the code that we see in the DNA of life today and for generating the changes that we see in the fossil record.

So I think Natural Revelation (ie Science) is the enemy (not the friend) of Evolutionary theory that presumes the adequacy of random mutation and natural selection ALONE.

At one point according to cosmology we weren't the centre of the universe and held no special place in the universe. The Christian crowd accepted that and made the Bible fit that. Well now they are questioning that. Your "science" is in constant flux we don't know squat about the universe, it's one big frikken guess.

But the shape of the earth is not a 'guess'. From thousands and thousands of videos and pictures from multiple countries, satellites, spacecraft, space stations, etc (not to mention thousands of videos of ships and boats travelling over the horizon), we know what the earth looks like with precision. And it is NOT flat.
We know for a FACT that the earth is a globe.

This is why it is so damaging to the Gospel to equate the truth of Scripture with a known lie.

So how do you know when it is "accurately understood" and when we have it wrong? Science is in constant flux.

Do you believe in the big bang?
Do you believe we have no special place in the universe, that we are just another planet as science says?

Yes, but you are a preterist so for you satan has had his big day. So you accept NASA and all governments at their word and think they have no reason to lie, while we know that wars have been started for oil, agencies like the CIA lie, etc, etc.

For me satan is still firmly in control of most governments and bodies like NASA.

Did you watch that video I posted of actual unedited NASA footage that shows the astronauts faking a shot of the earth? And in fact showing that they couldn't have gone to the moon as they were still near earth when they were supposed to be heading for the moon? This proves NASA lies. They lied about the first trip to the moon and they lied about the rest.

I can prove the earth is not round.

Exalt Wireless shattered a record for microwave link communication, 146 miles!!!!

That is line of sight, point to point, from transmitter to receiver. Impossible on a round earth.

There should have been 12,575 feet of bulge or 2.38 miles of water bulge. This technology requires no physical obstacles in the way, nevermind a massive water bulge as high as 12,575 feet of water.

Exalt Sets New World Record for Microwave Link Distance

Exalt Wireless Shatters World Record for Microwave Link Distance

So explain to me how they could transmit a microwave signal 146 miles from transmitter to receiver point to point. How is this possible on a round earth.
Same with the Knickebein system. Impossible on a round earth. Rick said he would investigate it but he never got back to me, I wonder why.

[Stu]

stu wrote:
Ah right, so it's reached this point where all logic and basic debate technique goes out the window, only left with DB it seems.

It’s never been a debate. The issue is your denial of the basic fact that the earth is a sphere. Almost all of your points that I mocked in your last post are so ridiculous and inaccurate, that there’s no point in responding to them seriously. Your worldview here is not based in reality. The earth is demonstrably not flat. There is no NASA conspiracy. Heiser does not say that the Bible teaches a flat earth in the same sense that fact-denying flat earthers suggest.

For the sake of your family and loved ones, please seek help.

Ok Einstein.

You fit in well with the hand waving, argument from authority atheists I sometimes debate. Complete arrogance from on top their pedestal.

You never did explain to me how the Knickebein targeting system was able to achieve what it did. I guess you don't have an answer.

How about explaining how Exalt Wireless was able to send a microwave signal 146 miles from Cyprus to Lebanon over the sea where there should have been 12,575 feet of bulge in the way. See post above for more info.

Oh you can't explain it, you just accept it. Kinda like a miracle. Do angels bend the microwaves around the bulge so that they can be received

There is plenty for which you have no answer for yet you act with such arrogance.

[RickD]

Stu wrote:
There is plenty for which you have no answer for yet you act with such arrogance.

Literally every stupid flat earth argument has been refuted.

Accepting the obvious fact that the earth is a sphere, and pointing out the utter absurdity of your posts is not arrogance on my part.

This is the 21st century. There are medications* available that can help with your issues.

*I normally don’t advocate for drugs, but in your case, it’s pretty obvious that you have issues grasping reality, and logic.

Going forward, if you want to post more absurdities, I may or may not respond with equally absurd responses. But from now on, I’m not even going to attempt to counter your fantasy with logic.

[Stu]

Stu wrote:
There is plenty for which you have no answer for yet you act with such arrogance.

Literally every stupid flat earth argument has been refuted.

Accepting the obvious fact that the earth is a sphere, and pointing out the utter absurdity of your posts is not arrogance on my part.

This is the 21st century. There are medications* available that can help with your issues.

*I normally don’t advocate for drugs, but in your case, it’s pretty obvious that you have issues grasping reality, and logic.

Going forward, if you want to post more absurdities, I may or may not respond with equally absurd responses. But from now on, I’m not even going to attempt to counter your fantasy with logic.

Just as I suspected, you virtually promised to look into the Knickebein targeting system but never got back to me on that. Speaks volumes.

And the exact same scenario here you have no clue how they can send a microwave 146 miles from point to point when there should be a water bulge 12,575 feet high in the way. Impossible on a round earth, but you stick your head in the sand like any good pedestal sitter does.

It could be angels says Rick, they bend the microwave

[DBowling]

you virtually promised to look into the Knickebein targeting system

Let me take a shot

In contrast to line-of-sight propagation, at low frequency (below approximately 3 MHz) due to diffraction, radio waves can travel as ground waves, which follow the contour of the Earth. This enables AM radio stations to transmit beyond the horizon. Additionally, frequencies in the shortwave bands between approximately 1 and 30 MHz, can be refracted back to Earth by the ionosphere, called skywave or "skip" propagation, thus giving radio transmissions in this range a potentially global reach.

Another milestone of German radar technology was the radar station Knickebein, one of the first over-the-horizon devices. The operating frequency was 30 MHz, i.e. at the upper end of the shortwave range. By using the reflection of the emitted and received signals on conductive ionospheric layers and on the earth's surface, ranges of several thousand kilometers have been achieved.

[RickD]

Stu wrote:
And the exact same scenario here you have no clue how they can send a microwave 146 miles from point to point when there should be a water bulge 12,575 feet high in the way. Impossible on a round earth, but you stick your head in the sand like any good pedestal sitter does.

I can’t tell you. It’s a NASA secret, and I’m bound to keep it.

Stu wrote:
Just as I suspected, you virtually promised to look into the Knickebein targeting system but never got back to me on that. Speaks volumes.

Nope. Never promised anything. Go back and look at my posts. Doesn’t matter anyways, because DB just gave you the answer, which I’m sure you’ll dismiss.

It could be angels says Rick, they bend the microwave

Even that’s more likely than a flat earth.

[Stu]

you virtually promised to look into the Knickebein targeting system

Let me take a shot

In contrast to line-of-sight propagation, at low frequency (below approximately 3 MHz) due to diffraction, radio waves can travel as ground waves, which follow the contour of the Earth. This enables AM radio stations to transmit beyond the horizon. Additionally, frequencies in the shortwave bands between approximately 1 and 30 MHz, can be refracted back to Earth by the ionosphere, called skywave or "skip" propagation, thus giving radio transmissions in this range a potentially global reach.

Another milestone of German radar technology was the radar station Knickebein, one of the first over-the-horizon devices. The operating frequency was 30 MHz, i.e. at the upper end of the shortwave range. By using the reflection of the emitted and received signals on conductive ionospheric layers and on the earth's surface, ranges of several thousand kilometers have been achieved.

Ok so if the waves are travelling along the ground or bouncing off the ionosphere how are the planes supposed to travel along the VHF wave to guide them? Surely they will get off course?

And what of the microwave transmission which is point to point?