The US NEVER Went To The Moon

[Stu]

Stu wrote:
And the exact same scenario here you have no clue how they can send a microwave 146 miles from point to point when there should be a water bulge 12,575 feet high in the way. Impossible on a round earth, but you stick your head in the sand like any good pedestal sitter does.

I can’t tell you. It’s a NASA secret, and I’m bound to keep it.

Stu wrote:
Just as I suspected, you virtually promised to look into the Knickebein targeting system but never got back to me on that. Speaks volumes.

Nope. Never promised anything. Go back and look at my posts. Doesn’t matter anyways, because DB just gave you the answer, which I’m sure you’ll dismiss.

It could be angels says Rick, they bend the microwave

Even that’s more likely than a flat earth.

You're so in love with your "science" that you are blinded to even what the Bible says. At least Heiser admits what the Bible teaches, he just refuses to believe it, you can't even admit that it teaches a flat earth.
You have been brainwashed since birth and they have done a great job.

Like Mark Twain said “It's Easier to Fool People Than It Is to Convince Them That They Have Been Fooled.”

[DBowling]

you virtually promised to look into the Knickebein targeting system

Let me take a shot

In contrast to line-of-sight propagation, at low frequency (below approximately 3 MHz) due to diffraction, radio waves can travel as ground waves, which follow the contour of the Earth. This enables AM radio stations to transmit beyond the horizon. Additionally, frequencies in the shortwave bands between approximately 1 and 30 MHz, can be refracted back to Earth by the ionosphere, called skywave or "skip" propagation, thus giving radio transmissions in this range a potentially global reach.

Another milestone of German radar technology was the radar station Knickebein, one of the first over-the-horizon devices. The operating frequency was 30 MHz, i.e. at the upper end of the shortwave range. By using the reflection of the emitted and received signals on conductive ionospheric layers and on the earth's surface, ranges of several thousand kilometers have been achieved.

Ok so if the waves are travelling along the ground or bouncing off the ionosphere how are the planes supposed to travel along the VHF wave to guide them?

Planes don't travel along the wave, they use information in the wave to guide them.

The idea of "beam" based navigation was developed during the 1930s, initially as a blind landing aid. The basic concept is to produce two directional radio signals that are aimed slightly to the left and right of a runway's midline. Radio operators in the aircraft listen for these signals and determine which of the two beams they are flying in. This is normally accomplished by sending Morse code signals into the two beams, to identify right and left.

Stu - And what of the microwave transmission which is point to point?

Microwave transmission is the transmission of information by microwave radio waves. Although an experimental 40-mile (64 km) microwave telecommunication link across the English Channel was demonstrated in 1931, the development of radar in World War II provided the technology for practical exploitation of microwave communication. In the 1950s, large transcontinental microwave relay networks, consisting of chains of repeater stations linked by line-of-sight beams of microwaves were built in Europe and America to relay long distance telephone traffic and television programs between cities. Communication satellites which transferred data between ground stations by microwaves took over much long distance traffic in the 1960s. In recent years, there has been an explosive increase in use of the microwave spectrum by new telecommunication technologies such as wireless networks, and direct-broadcast satellites which broadcast television and radio directly into consumers' homes.

[DBowling]

I strongly believe that Special Revelation (ie Scripture) and Natural Revelation (Science and History) when accurately understood will never come into conflict, since the same God is the source of both.

Science is man made, mistakes can and are made all the time.

Which is why I bolded when accurately understood

I stand by the truth of my full statement.
Special Revelation (ie Scripture) and Natural Revelation (Science and History) when accurately understood will never come into conflict, since the same God is the source of both.

The theory of evolution is science, is God the source of it?

Many times on this forum I have provided scientific evidence that clearly demonstrates that "random mutation" (which we can observe and measure by science today) is an inadequate process for generating the code that we see in the DNA of life today and for generating the changes that we see in the fossil record.

So I think Natural Revelation (ie Science) is the enemy (not the friend) of Evolutionary theory that presumes the adequacy of random mutation and natural selection ALONE.

At one point according to cosmology we weren't the centre of the universe and held no special place in the universe. The Christian crowd accepted that and made the Bible fit that. Well now they are questioning that. Your "science" is in constant flux we don't know squat about the universe, it's one big frikken guess.

But the shape of the earth is not a 'guess'. From thousands and thousands of videos and pictures from multiple countries, satellites, spacecraft, space stations, etc (not to mention thousands of videos of ships and boats travelling over the horizon), we know what the earth looks like with precision. And it is NOT flat.
We know for a FACT that the earth is a globe.

This is why it is so damaging to the Gospel to equate the truth of Scripture with a known lie.

So how do you know when it is "accurately understood" and when we have it wrong?

You look at the evidence and see where it takes you

For example
If you have thousands and thousands of videos and photos from different countries, organizations, spacecraft, satellites, space stations, etc all without exception showing that the earth is a globe, then that alone is more than enough evidence to establish the shape of the earth as a known fact.

Do you believe in the big bang?

Yes I do.
And the Big Bang is powerful evidence for the existence of an Intelligent Creator of the Universe and the accuracy of Scripture.

Do you believe we have no special place in the universe, that we are just another planet as science says?

I believe that God designed and finely tuned Earth specifically as a place for his image bearers to live and exercise dominion. And that makes Earth special (and I believe unique as well) in the Universe.

Yes, but you are a preterist so for you satan has had his big day.

I am a Partial Preterist...
Which means I believe that Jesus and John correctly identified the timing of the Great Tribulation which took place in 70 AD.
I believe that Jesus could physically return to earth at any time in conjunction with the Resurrection and the Final Judgement.

And I believe that Satan is 'loosed' sometime before the Return of Jesus (Rev 20).
Whether the loosing of Satan is a current or future event, I don't claim to know.
I do know that Jesus explicitly tells us to prepare for his Return.

For me satan is still firmly in control of most governments and bodies like NASA.

Satan is the Father of Lies, and thus is influencing any person or entity that propagates known lies.
And convincing people that Scripture teaches the flat earth lie is one tool that Satan uses to damage the integrity of Christians and attack the truth of Scripture.

I can prove the earth is not round.

You may have been deceived into thinking you can...

So explain to me how they could transmit a microwave signal 146 miles from transmitter to receiver point to point. How is this possible on a round earth.
Same with the Knickebein system. Impossible on a round earth. Rick said he would investigate it but he never got back to me, I wonder why.

I have already explained both in a previous post.

[Stu]

I strongly believe that Special Revelation (ie Scripture) and Natural Revelation (Science and History) when accurately understood will never come into conflict, since the same God is the source of both.

Science is man made, mistakes can and are made all the time.

Which is why I bolded when accurately understood

I stand by the truth of my full statement.
Special Revelation (ie Scripture) and Natural Revelation (Science and History) when accurately understood will never come into conflict, since the same God is the source of both.

The theory of evolution is science, is God the source of it?

Many times on this forum I have provided scientific evidence that clearly demonstrates that "random mutation" (which we can observe and measure by science today) is an inadequate process for generating the code that we see in the DNA of life today and for generating the changes that we see in the fossil record.

So I think Natural Revelation (ie Science) is the enemy (not the friend) of Evolutionary theory that presumes the adequacy of random mutation and natural selection ALONE.

At one point according to cosmology we weren't the centre of the universe and held no special place in the universe. The Christian crowd accepted that and made the Bible fit that. Well now they are questioning that. Your "science" is in constant flux we don't know squat about the universe, it's one big frikken guess.

But the shape of the earth is not a 'guess'. From thousands and thousands of videos and pictures from multiple countries, satellites, spacecraft, space stations, etc (not to mention thousands of videos of ships and boats travelling over the horizon), we know what the earth looks like with precision. And it is NOT flat.
We know for a FACT that the earth is a globe.

This is why it is so damaging to the Gospel to equate the truth of Scripture with a known lie.

So how do you know when it is "accurately understood" and when we have it wrong?

You look at the evidence and see where it takes you

For example
If you have thousands and thousands of videos and photos from different countries, organizations, spacecraft, satellites, space stations, etc all without exception showing that the earth is a globe, then that alone is more than enough evidence to establish the shape of the earth as a known fact.

Do you believe in the big bang?

Yes I do.
And the Big Bang is powerful evidence for the existence of an Intelligent Creator of the Universe and the accuracy of Scripture.

Do you believe we have no special place in the universe, that we are just another planet as science says?

I believe that God designed and finely tuned Earth specifically as a place for his image bearers to live and exercise dominion. And that makes Earth special (and I believe unique as well) in the Universe.

Yes, but you are a preterist so for you satan has had his big day.

I am a Partial Preterist...
Which means I believe that Jesus and John correctly identified the timing of the Great Tribulation which took place in 70 AD.
I believe that Jesus could physically return to earth at any time in conjunction with the Resurrection and the Final Judgement.

And I believe that Satan is 'loosed' sometime before the Return of Jesus (Rev 20).
Whether the loosing of Satan is a current or future event, I don't claim to know.
I do know that Jesus explicitly tells us to prepare for his Return.

For me satan is still firmly in control of most governments and bodies like NASA.

Satan is the Father of Lies, and thus is influencing any person or entity that propagates known lies.
And convincing people that Scripture teaches the flat earth lie is one tool that Satan uses to damage the integrity of Christians and attack the truth of Scripture.

I can prove the earth is not round.

You may have been deceived into thinking you can...

So explain to me how they could transmit a microwave signal 146 miles from transmitter to receiver point to point. How is this possible on a round earth.
Same with the Knickebein system. Impossible on a round earth. Rick said he would investigate it but he never got back to me, I wonder why.

I have already explained both in a previous post.

No you didn't you quoted another setup which has nothing to do with the long distance record set more recently.

There were no satellites involved, it was transmitter to receiver. Full stop. 146 miles.
There would be 12,575 feet bulge in the way.

Impossible on a globe earth.

There are plenty of such incidents, just finished listening to a person who works on a navy ship and he said there are all kinds of inconsistencies with a globe earth. These are people who have access to technology and use it, he has come to a flat earth conclusion.

You place all your faith in an organisation that is known to lie from it's first supposed moon mission. They faked it. Yet you believe without question.

[DBowling]

So explain to me how they could transmit a microwave signal 146 miles from transmitter to receiver point to point. How is this possible on a round earth.
Same with the Knickebein system. Impossible on a round earth. Rick said he would investigate it but he never got back to me, I wonder why.

I have already explained both in a previous post.

No you didn't you quoted another setup which has nothing to do with the long distance record set more recently.

There were no satellites involved, it was transmitter to receiver. Full stop. 146 miles.
There would be 12,575 feet bulge in the way.

Not if you have one tower in the mountains of Lebanon and another on a mountain in Cyprus.
Placing the towers on mountains in Lebanon and Cyprus allows for the microwave signal to travel over the 'curvature bulge' and provide line of sight between the two towers.

https://link.ui.com/#p=aa6e78dadd6c41a49a7d541b7cad1352

And another one bites the dust
So...
How long do we have to play whack-a-mole with flat earth lies before you finally realize that these flat earth folks are frauds and liars?

[EssentialSacrifice]

So, actually I have a couple of questions here… need some help in visualizing…

What does the bottom of the flat earth look like? I mean we see all the stuff we see on top but what’s it like on the bottom?.... Tree roots and stuff? Etc...why haven't we seen a picture of our bottom?

When the earth is in between the moon and the sun, in a waxing/waning (examples) of transition… why is the resulting shadow on the moon’s surface elliptical?… curved?… the shadow is the best representation of earth’s shape (as the Sun’s light travels in a straight line) and no interference between all 3 objects to obscure the true representation of earth’s roundness,, causing the ellipse shaped shadow on the moon.

Is there any reason to believe any other planetary object we have discovered is other than round? If we haven’t (and we haven’t) but we have seen all around( 360 deg.) nearly all our galaxian planetary (including their moons) relatives. Why are we then the only one flat?

How are we even alive … and not microwaved little pieces of bacon since our protection from the Sun’s cosmic radiation “waves” (Magnetic fields) are only produced by convection of a liquid iron alloy in the outer core. In a dynamo process, The dynamo process can only be achieved on a rotating convection(al) and electrically conducting fluid… it has to be in motion to work, needs a conducting fluid (iron) and will not work without continuing rotation. Does a flat earth rotate as such? Can it if not round?

I came in to all this because of the 146 mi. restriction for radio waves. All true, the 12,575 ft. bulge would come in to play. However, if the world were flat and you positioned yourself on the highest peak why would you not be able to see from end to end? What would hinder a telescope that can see 100’s of light years in to a night sky from seeing from end to end of a 25,000 mile earth? Why hasn't this been done yet to prove to all it's a flat earth?

I’m sure there’s more but I don’t think anything is going to get you off your flat earth soap box. Conventional wisdom is beyond the pale here, You really should move on.

[RickD]

DBowling,

How are you supposed to have an honest conversation with someone who sincerely believes this:

You place all your faith in an organisation that is known to lie from it's first supposed moon mission. They faked it. Yet you believe without question.

[DBowling]

DBowling,

How are you supposed to have an honest conversation with someone who sincerely believes this:

You place all your faith in an organisation that is known to lie from it's first supposed moon mission. They faked it. Yet you believe without question.

This isn't necessarily only about Stu.
Part of this is about using science, data, and truth to demonstrate over and over and over again (if necessary) to anyone following this thread that flat earth nonsense is a lie... plain and simple.

I've mentioned this earlier, but my primary concern is that some seeker will come to the "God and Science" board and go away thinking that either
- Christians believe in the flat earth lie
or even worse
- Scripture teaches the flat earth lie

Maybe Stu can be freed from the web of flat earth lies... Maybe he won't... I don't know.
I just don't want the God and Science board to be a tool to suck anyone else into known lies and distort the truth of Scripture and the Gospel.

[RickD]

DBowling wrote:
This isn't necessarily only about Stu.
Part of this is about using science, data, and truth to demonstrate over and over and over again (if necessary) to anyone following this thread that flat earth nonsense is a lie... plain and simple.

Anyone following this thread who isn't a flat earther, already knows that flat earth nonsense is a lie.

I've mentioned this earlier, but my primary concern is that some seeker will come to the "God and Science" board and go away thinking that either
- Christians believe in the flat earth lie
or even worse
- Scripture teaches the flat earth lie

But there are Christians that believe the flat earth lie. Remember the guy named Stu?

Maybe Stu can be freed from the web of flat earth lies... Maybe he won't... I don't know.
I just don't want the God and Science board to be a tool to suck anyone else into known lies and distort the truth of Scripture and the Gospel.

I guess I give people more credit than you do. I seriously don’t think any sane person is going to believe in a flat earth, nevermind get that idea from this board. Stu has pretty much dug his own grave with this topic. Do you really think people who are reading this thread are going to be dumb enough to actually believe the crap that Stu is peddling?

The concept of a flat earth has to be the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard. Like I said before, someone who sincerely believes in a flat earth, is on the same level as someone who listens to his radio, and thinks it’s speaking directly to him. There’s definitely some mental health issues going on in either case.

[Stu]

DBowling,

How are you supposed to have an honest conversation with someone who sincerely believes this:

You place all your faith in an organisation that is known to lie from it's first supposed moon mission. They faked it. Yet you believe without question.

I apologise for placing more faith in the Bible than NASA. Unlike Heiser I believe what the Bible says.

As for the moon landing, here is some unedited NASA footage. You can clearly see them faking the pictures of the earth, and the timeline shows that they couldn't have been on the moon when they said they were.

When one of the original astronauts was shown this NASA footage, he got angry and told the filming crew to leave. That speaks volumes, why would he be angry?

Watch from 32:00, it clearly shows NASA are liars.

[Stu]

So, actually I have a couple of questions here… need some help in visualizing…

What does the bottom of the flat earth look like? I mean we see all the stuff we see on top but what’s it like on the bottom?.... Tree roots and stuff? Etc...why haven't we seen a picture of our bottom?

The Bible says we will never be able to calculate the depth of the earth or the height of the heavens. That is what God says. Yet according to the globe model we have done at least one of those. Oops did the Bible get it wrong again.

The Bible says that hell is below us and I believe that, that hell is some way down in the bowels of the earth.

When the earth is in between the moon and the sun, in a waxing/waning (examples) of transition… why is the resulting shadow on the moon’s surface elliptical?… curved?… the shadow is the best representation of earth’s shape (as the Sun’s light travels in a straight line) and no interference between all 3 objects to obscure the true representation of earth’s roundness,, causing the ellipse shaped shadow on the moon.

Experiments have been done and you can use something straight and it will throw a curved shadow. Test it for yourself.

Is there any reason to believe any other planetary object we have discovered is other than round? If we haven’t (and we haven’t) but we have seen all around( 360 deg.) nearly all our galaxian planetary (including their moons) relatives. Why are we then the only one flat?

Again, the images that NASA gives of so called planets are not what we see when we zoom in with a camera like a Nikon P900 for example. They don't look round at all. The Bible doesn't speak of planets.

How are we even alive … and not microwaved little pieces of bacon since our protection from the Sun’s cosmic radiation “waves” (Magnetic fields) are only produced by convection of a liquid iron alloy in the outer core. In a dynamo process, The dynamo process can only be achieved on a rotating convection(al) and electrically conducting fluid… it has to be in motion to work, needs a conducting fluid (iron) and will not work without continuing rotation. Does a flat earth rotate as such? Can it if not round?

According to the flat earth model the sun is not a massive star 52 million miles away, it is local, just like the moon and like Russian documents say.

I came in to all this because of the 146 mi. restriction for radio waves. All true, the 12,575 ft. bulge would come in to play. However, if the world were flat and you positioned yourself on the highest peak why would you not be able to see from end to end? What would hinder a telescope that can see 100’s of light years in to a night sky from seeing from end to end of a 25,000 mile earth? Why hasn't this been done yet to prove to all it's a flat earth?

If you used infrared technology and a camera or telescope that was powerful enough you could. BUT there is stuff in the air like moisture that prevents you from seeing at such a distance, hence the need for infrared.

Check out this guys channel. He uses infrared technology and allows him to see much further than conventional cameras. He gets in airplanes and films and guess what, you see no curving of the earth at all, it is just flat. No matter how high you get the horizon always rises to the eye level. Impossible on a globe earth. You should be able to see the earth curve a little at 120,000 feet but nothing. Flat.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqjHW3 ... Hcw/videos

I’m sure there’s more but I don’t think anything is going to get you off your flat earth soap box. Conventional wisdom is beyond the pale here, You really should move on.

And it seem you are firmly planted on your globe soap box. Ignorance is bliss I guess. At least I have the Bible on my side

[RickD]

Stu,

In Jesus’ own words, he claims to be bread:

John 6:51
51 I am the living bread that came down out of heaven; if anyone eats from this bread, he will live forever; and the bread which I will give for the life of the world also is My flesh.”

Since Jesus said it in the Bible, is this a true representation of Jesus’ appearance?

[DBowling]

At least I have the Bible on my side

That's the really big issue here.
Scripture is NOT on your side.

The real question is
"Are you on Scripture's side?"
And distorting what Scripture says to support a known lie demonstrates that flat earthers are most definitely not on Scripture's side.

Scripture is accurate and authoritative.
Man's interpretation of Scripture is not necessarily accurate or authoritative.
And a (mis)interpretation of Scripture that is built upon a known lie is "on the side of" the Father of Lies.

[Stu]

Stu,

In Jesus’ own words, he claims to be bread:

John 6:51
51 I am the living bread that came down out of heaven; if anyone eats from this bread, he will live forever; and the bread which I will give for the life of the world also is My flesh.”

Since Jesus said it in the Bible, is this a true representation of Jesus’ appearance?

I see you ignored the NASA FOOTAGE in favour of silly games.

If you have no answer for why they faked a photo of the earth in their craft or why they were no where near the moon according to the footage, that is fine but ignoring some of the most damning evidence in the history of NASA's existence speaks volumes about you.
I suspect that no one including DB won't respond because it's clear for all to see what the truth is according to NASA's own footage.

[Stu]

At least I have the Bible on my side

That's the really big issue here.
Scripture is NOT on your side.

The real question is
"Are you on Scripture's side?"
And distorting what Scripture says to support a known lie demonstrates that flat earthers are most definitely not on Scripture's side.

Scripture is accurate and authoritative.
Man's interpretation of Scripture is not necessarily accurate or authoritative.
And a (mis)interpretation of Scripture that is built upon a known lie is "on the side of" the Father of Lies.

So are you saying Michael Heiser is wrong in saying that the Bible says the earth is flat with a dome over it. And the ancient Hebrews were wrong as well?