Derek Chauvin Found Guilty

[RickD]

Or how about LeBron, King of Wokeness:
https://www.foxnews.com/sports/lebron-j ... youre-next

[Fliegender]

Or how about LeBron, King of Wokeness:
https://www.foxnews.com/sports/lebron-j ... youre-next

I’m certainly not a leftist...lol. I’m fiscally conservative and socially liberal. That said, both the Democrats and the Republicans would be right-wing parties in any other Western country. The Republicans are further right than the Dems and Prophet Trump (pbuh) managed to drag that party almost to fascism’s doorstep.

Quoting Fox and Dinesh to back your point is...uh...nonsensical. Mainstream American media - including CNN - doesn’t have much credibility outside the USA because of the highly polarized nature of their reporting. Their “reporting” sounds more like yellow journalism or editorializing to me.

I not doing any “race baiting”. It should be obvious to anyone that the USA has a serious problem with racism. Unfortunately, you may not be able to see it when you live in the country...or you really believe that non-whites have the same real world opportunities as whites. That isn’t even the case in other countries but only in the USA is the difference so marked.

Listen, that’s just your culture. I’m fine with it and all the other aspects of American life. I even enjoyed Prophet Trump (pbuh) for the four years he spent making America a laughing stock and making a fool of himself. The news media lost their biggest cash cow when he was defeated! None of this affects me one way or another because I don’t live in the USA. I always appreciate my trips to the USA as a tourist.

[RickD]

Or how about LeBron, King of Wokeness:
https://www.foxnews.com/sports/lebron-j ... youre-next

I’m certainly not a leftist...lol. I’m fiscally conservative and socially liberal. That said, both the Democrats and the Republicans would be right-wing parties in any other Western country. The Republicans are further right than the Dems and Prophet Trump (pbuh) managed to drag that party almost to fascism’s doorstep.

Quoting Fox and Dinesh to back your point is...uh...nonsensical. Mainstream American media - including CNN - doesn’t have much credibility outside the USA because of the highly polarized nature of their reporting. Their “reporting” sounds more like yellow journalism or editorializing to me.

I not doing any “race baiting”. It should be obvious to anyone that the USA has a serious problem with racism. Unfortunately, you may not be able to see it when you live in the country...or you really believe that non-whites have the same real world opportunities as whites. That isn’t even the case in other countries but only in the USA is the difference so marked.

Listen, that’s just your culture. I’m fine with it and all the other aspects of American life. I even enjoyed Prophet Trump (pbuh) for the four years he spent making America a laughing stock and making a fool of himself. The news media lost their biggest cash cow when he was defeated! None of this affects me one way or another because I don’t live in the USA. I always appreciate my trips to the USA as a tourist.

What’s ironic, is that your first statement is claiming you’re not a leftist, then everything you said after that proves you are. You absolutely are race baiting. And just like other leftists, you can’t see that it’s a problem. There’s a huge problem with fatherless homes with black families in the US. But to leftists like yourself, it’s simply race. It’s wrong, and does nobody any good to claim race is the issue. Nobody’s race is keeping anyone here from having the opportunity to succeed. But your leftist race baiting and excuses keep people from thinking they can succeed if they put their minds to it, make good choices in life, and put in some effort.

[Fliegender]

^^^^
Re post above.

Nope, I’m not race baiting because that’s not part of my culture; it’s part of yours so that’s what you interpret. Race isn’t important to me and problematic race relations here as in most other Western nations are minimal compared to what goes on in America. I just accept America’s racial and other problems as cultural markers. The problems in your society as well as the positive aspects are what make up American culture. Period.

It may help you to understand my point by looking at a third country as an example: Saudi Arabia. You and I may find Saudi penalties for theft, murder and rape to be over-the-top. You and I may find that Saudi laws pertaining to women to be medieval or backwards. You and I may find the impossibility to buy alcohol in Saudi to be something good...and so on. All these things and more make up Saudi culture. The Saudis may run their country as they see fit and according to their culture, not yours or mine. I’m not going to tell the Saudis not to behead harlots or chop the hand off of a thief because that’s an integral part of their culture.

Get it?

[Philip]

Rick: Sin is ingrained in humanity. People are sinners, and racism is a sin. As soon as you remove sin from humanity, then you’ll remove racism. Racism isn’t restricted to the History of the US. It’s in history everywhere.

This I agree with immensely! Our SYSTEM is not racist - no more than any other system in the world is. Now, that doesn't mean there aren't problems with our system or others. But what IS racist are PEOPLE within EVERY system. And it's mostly about power, greed, and the sinful, narcissistic human tendency to desire control over others and maximize their own power, rewards and evil desires. And this ALWAYS, regardless of the country and system, plays out with the people of any society that have the majority of the power and money vs. those that do not. It just happens that this powerplay often takes place here in the U.S., by a certain percentage of people in the majority, along racial lines, because race is very easy to use and exploit (and don't fool yourself, Rick, there are plenty of every political persuasion that do this!). And the larger the population numbers of a racial majority, the more the racial minority will experience racism - simply because a certain percent of people of EVERY race are going to have racist tendencies and thus there will automatically be more racially negative people in the majority - which disproportionately will impact minorities. And such attitudes will always stoke and created racist reactions amongst the minority - even though they often DO have reasons to be upset with the racism they encounter.

Ah, but let's, for the sake of argument, reverse the race of the minority and magically make them suddenly become the majority, in terms of numbers of people - with the previous majority having been reduced in numbers equal to that of the former minority (now NEW majority). Does anyone in their right mind think the new minority (FORMER majority) members won't then begin ending up on the receiving end of exactly the same percentage of racism and discrimination? Of COURSE they will - because what's happening is, it's not any one RACE that is more racist - it's whatever percentage of INDIVIDUALS within ANY race that will be A) racist and B) that will game the system to exploit it per racist actions and discrimination - all for the same sinful reasons - power, control, etc.

I grew up in the American South as a young kid during VERY racist days - the early 60s were often a nightmare for blacks in the U.S. Then, around 1970, I became a minority and was bused to majority black schools - as white families with money fled the public schools. From 8th through 12th grade, I lived through horrific racism and wasn't just insulted or discriminated against - that I could have withstood - NO, I'm talking about constantly being physically threatened, intimidated, shaken down for money, and at one point physically attacked and kicked around by a gang of black youths. I spent 5 years in great fear and anxiety. My middle school and high school years were one, long nightmare! AND YET, I always had black friends that stood up for me. Because the PERCENTAGE of people causing most of the danger and threatening me wasn't very large - but as there were many more black than white students, the result was far more incidents and danger - simply due to the numbers between myself (the minority) and the number of racist blacks meant it far more likely that I would encounter such individuals.

My point is, EVERY race has a percentage of people that have a problem with race and racist attitudes, and it plays out in power moves. Now, and I've said it before, go to Europe, where most are of the SAME skin color - ah, but THERE the same sinful "racism" often plays out exactly the same, yet not per skin color, but in class warfare, per ethnic background, or religious affiliation. Go to Africa to areas where EVERYONE has black skin color - same thing - then this human "racism" breaks down per majority and minority tribal groups. Only naive people buying into media narratives think any one country is typically more racist than another, or that it's the system - make no mistake about it - it's certain INDIVIDUALS within WHATEVER system that are the true problem. In ancient Israel, the Jews hated all of the Romans, Samaritans, etc. Go in any corporate environment - it's the very same human issue - nasty bosses will exploit the workers below them, try to intimidate and strike them with constant fear of being fired. Make the workers the new corporate kings and the old bosses into peons - and a certain percentage of the new bosses / former workers would make life hell for the old bosses/new workers.

Now, are there minorities who legitimately face terrible discrimination in America - ABSOLUTELY! I worked in a all-white firm where the owners were all had racist attitudes - no blacks were ever hired until the company stock went public and it became an issue. And you should have heard some of these people's attitudes about minorities! Yet, during those same years, however, as a white male wearing business attire, I went all over the city - and I can't tell you the hateful and threatening looks I would receive if I went into all-black neighborhoods - it wasn't the least bit subtle and was often downright scary. Again, caused by a relatively small percentage of people who were like this - and so it's very easy for one to jump to the false perception that ANY RACE of people is more racist than their own race. And that's the great media lie that's being encouraged and spread 24/7 like wildfire! Not one nation doesn't have these same human sin issues. And yet, many people have deluded themselves into believing the huge lie that some other race is more racist and less honorable their own race! And, of course, the answer to this human nightmare is open hearts changed by Christ!

Long post, I know, but, I think, worth saying!

[RickD]

^^^^
Re post above.

Nope, I’m not race baiting because that’s not part of my culture; it’s part of yours so that’s what you interpret. Race isn’t important to me and problematic race relations here as in most other Western nations are minimal compared to what goes on in America. I just accept America’s racial and other problems as cultural markers. The problems in your society as well as the positive aspects are what make up American culture. Period.

It may help you to understand my point by looking at a third country as an example: Saudi Arabia. You and I may find Saudi penalties for theft, murder and rape to be over-the-top. You and I may find that Saudi laws pertaining to women to be medieval or backwards. You and I may find the impossibility to buy alcohol in Saudi to be something good...and so on. All these things and more make up Saudi culture. The Saudis may run their country as they see fit and according to their culture, not yours or mine. I’m not going to tell the Saudis not to behead harlots or chop the hand off of a thief because that’s an integral part of their culture.

Get it?

This is race baiting, and completely false.
You wrote:

The USA has a serious problem with racism and police brutality towards the black population. It’s time to recognize that and to take steps to change the situation.

The facts do not bear this out.

[Fliegender]

^^^^
Re post above.

Nope, I’m not race baiting because that’s not part of my culture; it’s part of yours so that’s what you interpret. Race isn’t important to me and problematic race relations here as in most other Western nations are minimal compared to what goes on in America. I just accept America’s racial and other problems as cultural markers. The problems in your society as well as the positive aspects are what make up American culture. Period.

It may help you to understand my point by looking at a third country as an example: Saudi Arabia. You and I may find Saudi penalties for theft, murder and rape to be over-the-top. You and I may find that Saudi laws pertaining to women to be medieval or backwards. You and I may find the impossibility to buy alcohol in Saudi to be something good...and so on. All these things and more make up Saudi culture. The Saudis may run their country as they see fit and according to their culture, not yours or mine. I’m not going to tell the Saudis not to behead harlots or chop the hand off of a thief because that’s an integral part of their culture.

Get it?

This is race baiting, and completely false.
You wrote:

The USA has a serious problem with racism and police brutality towards the black population. It’s time to recognize that and to take steps to change the situation.

The facts do not bear this out.

Nope, there’s no race baiting. You are just seeing that because you’re American. You see what you want to see, what you’ve been accustomed to see from Americans. Here’s another example:

Someone in France just wrote to me complaining that Pakistan has just made it a crime to dishonor "Prophet" Muhammad and this person wanted me to sign some on-line petition against this Pakistani law. I refused. I answered that countries have the right to promulgate laws according to the local culture. I have no problem with Pakistani laws and if I ever visit that country, I certainly won’t carry a sign saying PROPHET MUHAMMAD WAS A PEDOPHILE! in the streets of Islamabad.

That’s Pakistan. It’s just the way the country is run. If I travel there, I’ll respect the local laws and the local culture. Still, I may think their laws are full of it but I’m only a tourist and I’ll be gone in a few weeks.

Back in the USA: is there a serious race problem in your country? Yes, and it’s historically bad. Much worse than anywhere else. Is there a gun problem in the USA? Of course there is as no other Western nation needs “active shooter” drills for school children. Do some Americans go bankrupt because of medical bills? Yes, of course but that’s part of your charm. I would never sign a petition against any of these things because they are the choices Americans have made for their country.

So there’s no race baiting on my part. Racism exists in the USA; the problem is serious but it doesn’t affect me. Actually, I remember a time in Georgia when your country‘s racism benefited me...but that’s another story.

[Stu]

^^^^
Re post above.

Nope, I’m not race baiting because that’s not part of my culture; it’s part of yours so that’s what you interpret. Race isn’t important to me and problematic race relations here as in most other Western nations are minimal compared to what goes on in America. I just accept America’s racial and other problems as cultural markers. The problems in your society as well as the positive aspects are what make up American culture. Period.

It may help you to understand my point by looking at a third country as an example: Saudi Arabia. You and I may find Saudi penalties for theft, murder and rape to be over-the-top. You and I may find that Saudi laws pertaining to women to be medieval or backwards. You and I may find the impossibility to buy alcohol in Saudi to be something good...and so on. All these things and more make up Saudi culture. The Saudis may run their country as they see fit and according to their culture, not yours or mine. I’m not going to tell the Saudis not to behead harlots or chop the hand off of a thief because that’s an integral part of their culture.

Get it?

This is race baiting, and completely false.
You wrote:

The USA has a serious problem with racism and police brutality towards the black population. It’s time to recognize that and to take steps to change the situation.

The facts do not bear this out.

Nope, there’s no race baiting. You are just seeing that because you’re American. You see what you want to see, what you’ve been accustomed to see from Americans. Here’s another example:

Someone in France just wrote to me complaining that Pakistan has just made it a crime to dishonor "Prophet" Muhammad and this person wanted me to sign some on-line petition against this Pakistani law. I refused. I answered that countries have the right to promulgate laws according to the local culture. I have no problem with Pakistani laws and if I ever visit that country, I certainly won’t carry a sign saying PROPHET MUHAMMAD WAS A PEDOPHILE! in the streets of Islamabad.

That’s Pakistan. It’s just the way the country is run. If I travel there, I’ll respect the local laws and the local culture. Still, I may think their laws are full of it but I’m only a tourist and I’ll be gone in a few weeks.

Back in the USA: is there a serious race problem in your country? Yes, and it’s historically bad. Much worse than anywhere else. Is there a gun problem in the USA? Of course there is as no other Western nation needs “active shooter” drills for school children. Do some Americans go bankrupt because of medical bills? Yes, of course but that’s part of your charm. I would never sign a petition against any of these things because they are the choices Americans have made for their country.

So there’s no race baiting on my part. Racism exists in the USA; the problem is serious but it doesn’t affect me. Actually, I remember a time in Georgia when your country‘s racism benefited me...but that’s another story.

Sorry but to be frank you are talking nonsense. Racism is an issue in many countries around the world. Have you seen the things going on in the UK right now especially football, huge race issues.

What about Obama, did the people who voted for him tick the wrong box when voting? And guess what he got voted in twice, all those racist conservatives should have realised their mistake of voting in a black man the first time and changed their vote but they didn't they voted him in a second time. But suddenly when those same people who voted for Obama change their vote to Trump they became racists. Ridiculous.

America doesn't have a gun problem it has a culture problem.

There are many countries that have guns but don't have mass shootings. My country being one. Americans have been mollycoddled and taught over and over that everything they want they can have, they have been spoiled and then when things don't go their way they explode and take out other people with them. Lose your job? Have a temper tantrum and take a few others with you.

Everytime a black person is killed in the US by cops whether right or wrong the media make a big splash about it, they are creating a monster that soon will not be tamed. Problem is twice as many white people are killed by cops than blacks. That is the facts. It's not a race problem it's a cop problem, they have been militarised to view the average American as their enemy and not someone to protect.

[RickD]

^^^^
Re post above.

Nope, I’m not race baiting because that’s not part of my culture; it’s part of yours so that’s what you interpret. Race isn’t important to me and problematic race relations here as in most other Western nations are minimal compared to what goes on in America. I just accept America’s racial and other problems as cultural markers. The problems in your society as well as the positive aspects are what make up American culture. Period.

It may help you to understand my point by looking at a third country as an example: Saudi Arabia. You and I may find Saudi penalties for theft, murder and rape to be over-the-top. You and I may find that Saudi laws pertaining to women to be medieval or backwards. You and I may find the impossibility to buy alcohol in Saudi to be something good...and so on. All these things and more make up Saudi culture. The Saudis may run their country as they see fit and according to their culture, not yours or mine. I’m not going to tell the Saudis not to behead harlots or chop the hand off of a thief because that’s an integral part of their culture.

Get it?

This is race baiting, and completely false.
You wrote:

The USA has a serious problem with racism and police brutality towards the black population. It’s time to recognize that and to take steps to change the situation.

The facts do not bear this out.

Nope, there’s no race baiting. You are just seeing that because you’re American. You see what you want to see, what you’ve been accustomed to see from Americans. Here’s another example:

Someone in France just wrote to me complaining that Pakistan has just made it a crime to dishonor "Prophet" Muhammad and this person wanted me to sign some on-line petition against this Pakistani law. I refused. I answered that countries have the right to promulgate laws according to the local culture. I have no problem with Pakistani laws and if I ever visit that country, I certainly won’t carry a sign saying PROPHET MUHAMMAD WAS A PEDOPHILE! in the streets of Islamabad.

That’s Pakistan. It’s just the way the country is run. If I travel there, I’ll respect the local laws and the local culture. Still, I may think their laws are full of it but I’m only a tourist and I’ll be gone in a few weeks.

Back in the USA: is there a serious race problem in your country? Yes, and it’s historically bad. Much worse than anywhere else. Is there a gun problem in the USA? Of course there is as no other Western nation needs “active shooter” drills for school children. Do some Americans go bankrupt because of medical bills? Yes, of course but that’s part of your charm. I would never sign a petition against any of these things because they are the choices Americans have made for their country.

So there’s no race baiting on my part. Racism exists in the USA; the problem is serious but it doesn’t affect me. Actually, I remember a time in Georgia when your country‘s racism benefited me...but that’s another story.

So, you don’t try to change Pakistani laws even if you don’t like the laws. So, what current laws in the US are racist, besides affirmative action laws?

[Fliegender]

So, you don’t try to change Pakistani laws even if you don’t like the laws. So, what current laws in the US are racist, besides affirmative action laws?

There are no current racist laws in the USA. If that’s what you and Stu got from my posts, you’re both lost in space.

Here’s another story that may help you understand:

While in Bethlehem, I met a 40-ish woman with her two teen daughters. The woman was wearing tight white jeans and a carbon-blue silk blouse. She looked like any other tourist but told me she lived not far away. Her husband was a dentist, she and her daughters were well dressed and attractive. She showed me around The Church of the Naitivity and some other sites holy to Christians. She even got on her knees to kiss some rock where Jesus was supposedly put after crucifixion...or some such story. Her daughters did the same (I didn’t; the rock was worn from all the rubbing of hands and kisses throughout the ages - yuck). The day ended, we went out separate ways but not before we exchanged emails.

So we started corresponding. I found out that she was a teacher in a school financed by Russia. She lived in Hebron. She sent me a picture of herself and her students. Oh Sh!t, the woman was wearing a hijab and dressed in an ugly bag just like typical Muslim women! I hardly recognized her. I warned her that as a devout Muslim she had no business being friends with a Christian. If she continued the correspondence, her husband would be justified in killing her. The police would do nothing as such an execution would be acceptable under the Palestinian Authority. Not legal but such executions are simply ignored by the authorities and culturally justified. She was aware of the danger and told me that a local man had killed his wife because he blamed her for the death of the family cow. The police do nothing in such cases.

So, murder is illegal in Area A of the Palestinian Authority but if the murder is justifiable under the circumstances, then you’re OK. (Israeli police have no authority in Area A; they have joint authority in Area B and full authority in Area C). Culturally acceptable murder are for things such as collaboration with the enemy, selling land to Jews, being friends with Jews, being a Jew in Area A, adultery and, apparently, being blamed for the death of your cow. It looks like anything goes...

So, the USA has no laws promoting racism anymore but racism is still a serious problem for historical and cultural reasons. Witness the preponderance of incarcerated black Americans if you have any doubts. Likewise, Area A has laws against murder but for historical and cultural reasons, you can still kill people with impunity.

(Somehow I doubt any of this is sinking in!)

[RickD]

So, the USA has no laws promoting racism anymore

Affirmative Action is law, and it’s racist. But it doesn’t fit your black victimhood racism, so let’s just ignore that law.

but racism is still a serious problem for historical and cultural reasons. Witness the preponderance of incarcerated black Americans if you have any doubts.

And again, you’re ignoring the fact that there’s a huge problem with fatherless homes, especially among black families, which leads to more crime.

Blacks commit a much larger percentage of crimes than whites, per population.

Those are the facts.

Innocent black people aren't getting pulled off the streets and put in prisons. While you drone on and on about how cops are racist, what about the fact that 90% of blacks that are murdered, are murdered by other blacks?

Just like the left here in America, you ignore the facts. You are entitled to your own opinion, but you’re not entitled to your own facts.

[Fliegender]

"Affirmative action is racist" is a funny statement! My understanding is that it attempts to correct past wrongs.

As for fatherless black children, I really don’t care. It’s part of the culture, like patriotism, mass shootings, guns, flags, religion and Costco among other things. These make America what it is. Some are good, some are awful. You’re not about to get rid of any of these cultural markers, especially when you believe "affirmative action is racist". I’m sure millions of Americans believe that just like there are millions more who think the election was stolen, or that Trump was the greatest president ever and that Biden is senile. From where I sit, it’s all nonsense.

Another thing that is part of American culture is highly polarized politics. Very, very highly polarized politics. It verges on the ridiculous, to the point where one side is blind to the good that the opposite side is doing.

I really enjoyed the 45th president because I could always count on him to say something really stupid or off-the-wall every single day until that horrible time when his Twitter account was muzzled. He was a boon for the media and for comedians alike. Even though he was an incompetent megalomaniac, there were some notable accomplishments during his administration: the U.S. Embassy to Israel was finally moved to Jerusalem, the Abraham Accords, the start of a dialogue with North Korea (miscarried, but still a start), renegotiated NAFTA and the reimposition of sanctions against Iran.

[RickD]

Fliegender wrote:
"Affirmative action is racist" is a funny statement! My understanding is that it attempts to correct past wrongs.

The policy is racist. The definition of racist, is something discriminatory on the basis of race. That’s exactly what Affirmative Action does. It’s a policy that discriminates on the basis of race.

So, attempting to “correct(racist) past wrongs” by continuing racism, is pretty asinine.

As for fatherless black children, I really don’t care.

I know you don’t care. Just like all race baiters, you take a fact, blacks disproportionately make up the US prison populations, and assume that’s because the system is racist. You haven’t even considered another reason.

Race baiters like yourself, perpetuate the false idea that America is a racist nation. It’s disgusting, and divisive.

[Philip]

This discussion is a hair away from being locked - because it's trending into deeper mud!

[Fliegender]

...

Race baiters like yourself, perpetuate the false idea that America is a racist nation. It’s disgusting, and divisive.

There’s no race baiting coming from me because it’s totally foreign to my culture. I simply accept the cultural markers existing in different countries. I note them but I don’t try to change them. In my story with the Palestinian lady, that should have been clear. I didn’t try to tell her that Palestinian society was oppressive towards women, or that it promoted violence towards Jews. Had I told her that, she would have objected because in her mind everything is okay. Her husband beats her because that’s what husbands there do. And Jews have no business in Area A so if they mistakenly drive their car there, they are fair game. This is totally normal in her society. Can you take this insight and apply it to your own society?

It’s often easier to see the faults of others than it is to see our own and that’s why I wrote about Pakistan and Palestine.