Once Saved, a Person is Saved FOREVER!!!

[Philip]

Stu: (Per the thread about Christians supposedly taking the Mark of the Beast). You make it sound like Christians are these perfect beings that can never succumb to pressures or be weak-willed in times of hardship.

Christians can succumb just like other people if they don't heed God.

I have heard of great men of God that have back slidden into the worst kind of sin, if once on fire for God people can backslide that much, there is a chance other Christians will take the mark when they are faced with starvation and a horrible death. Remember, some churches teach that you can take the mark and go to heaven.

Stu: You make it sound like Christians are these perfect beings that can never succumb to pressures or be weak-willed in times of hardship.

Ephesians 1:13-14: In Him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in Him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, Who is THE guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.

So, Stu, this period of time, from the point of first salvation, in which you insist WE must somehow maintain our faith ourselves, Scripture specifically eliminates such false belief. Note (from the passage above) that the period of time (between salvation and our physical death / entering into God’s glory) is A) defined in the Ephesians passage above and B) it used the word "UNTIL" to further note that it is GOD Who is the guarantee our salvation during that period. This is why the Apostle Paul had “confidence” that the Christians he addressed would gain Heaven! It's why there is no such thing as the oxymoron referred to as "Temporary ETERNAL life!"

No, Stu, I don't believe ANY Christian can earn their faith, nor can they maintain it! Do you not realize the ONLY difference between a saved person and an unsaved one is GOD'S grace and sustaining authorship upon the Salvation of every Christian, which begins at the point of salvation on through the rest of their mortal days, and forever afterward? Not one place in Scripture is a person clearly identified to be SAVED shown to fall away. Who guarantees the salvation of the saved, Stu, until we take full possession of it after this life? Who "SEALS" it? You, me, Christians that just try harder??? No - GOD!

We are saved by the grace of God, PERIOD! And, once saved, how can we be certain our salvation is forever? Because the "guarantee" is the HOLY SPIRIT, God Himself! Or do you think the Apostle lied about what God inspired (Ephesians 1:13–14), His hand-picked apostle to write instead, as you instead assert, A) there is NO guarantee because whether our salvation will remain with us B) is entirely contingent upon Christians, whom you correctly note, can be notoriously "weak willed?" So, you're gonna boast that you or some other is somehow able to, in their own effort, able to maintain their faith until death? That directly contradicts Scripture - which you clearly do not understand - at least not in this matter!

https://www.gotquestions.org/author-per ... faith.html

[Stu]

Stu: (Per the thread about Christians supposedly taking the Mark of the Beast). You make it sound like Christians are these perfect beings that can never succumb to pressures or be weak-willed in times of hardship.

Christians can succumb just like other people if they don't heed God.

I have heard of great men of God that have back slidden into the worst kind of sin, if once on fire for God people can backslide that much, there is a chance other Christians will take the mark when they are faced with starvation and a horrible death. Remember, some churches teach that you can take the mark and go to heaven.

Stu: You make it sound like Christians are these perfect beings that can never succumb to pressures or be weak-willed in times of hardship.

Ephesians 1:13-14: In Him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in Him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, Who is THE guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.

So, Stu, this period of time, from the point of first salvation, in which you insist WE must somehow maintain our faith ourselves, Scripture specifically eliminates such false belief. Note (from the passage above) that the period of time (between salvation and our physical death / entering into God’s glory) is A) defined in the Ephesians passage above and B) it used the word "UNTIL" to further note that it is GOD Who is the guarantee our salvation during that period. This is why the Apostle Paul had “confidence” that the Christians he addressed would gain Heaven! It's why there is no such thing as the oxymoron referred to as "Temporary ETERNAL life!"

No, Stu, I don't believe ANY Christian can earn their faith, nor can they maintain it! Do you not realize the ONLY difference between a saved person and an unsaved one is GOD'S grace and sustaining authorship upon the Salvation of every Christian, which begins at the point of salvation on through the rest of their mortal days, and forever afterward? Not one place in Scripture is a person clearly identified to be SAVED shown to fall away. Who guarantees the salvation of the saved, Stu, until we take full possession of it after this life? Who "SEALS" it? You, me, Christians that just try harder??? No - GOD!

We are saved by the grace of God, PERIOD! And, once saved, how can we be certain our salvation is forever? Because the "guarantee" is the HOLY SPIRIT, God Himself! Or do you think the Apostle lied about what God inspired (Ephesians 1:13–14), His hand-picked apostle to write instead, as you instead assert, A) there is NO guarantee because whether our salvation will remain with us B) is entirely contingent upon Christians, whom you correctly note, can be notoriously "weak willed?" So, you're gonna boast that you or some other is somehow able to, in their own effort, able to maintain their faith until death? That directly contradicts Scripture - which you clearly do not understand - at least not in this matter!

https://www.gotquestions.org/author-per ... faith.html

It is so so dangerous what you are preaching. You are basically telling Christians that they can go and do as they please and no matter what they will go to heaven, including taking the mark of the beast.

What then of the parable of the sower.

18 Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.
19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.
20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;
21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.
22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.
23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

Here He is talking about Christians that believe for a short while but FALL AWAY for various reasons. Exactly what you say cannot happen.

[Philip]

It is so so dangerous what you are preaching.

NO, Stu! It would be dangerous IF it were merely my opinion and I had made it up - but what you consider dangerous is verbatim what Scripture actually says about this! So,is Ephesians 1:13-14 true or NOT??? If not, what do you think it means? Why did Paul have confidence in the salvation of the Christians he addressed? How do you explain these? But first, please address the Ephesians passage in question!

Here the sower is explained: https://www.gotquestions.org/parable-sower.html

Further, Stu, would you not agree that God is the One who saves a person - as one cannot even believe or be saved without His help! (And He will help ALL willing to receive Him and His help to belief!) And as God is ALL-knowing, He has ALWAYS fully known the name of every single Christian who will be with Him forever! In fact, Revelation tells us that the names of those who will be saved were written in the Book of Life "before the foundation of the world." We're told that God sends the Holy Spirit to indwell every believer at salvation. Now, do you really believe that God and His Spirit save and indwell a person who He has also fully known will NOT be in Heaven with Him? What, did He make mistake by providing some supposed (your view) "TEMPORARY eternal life" - even though He would know whether that was a waste of His efforts?

Yes, Stu, Christians can and do hideous things that they can repent of and God can forgive them of. Think of David and his adultery, of setting up a innocent man to be killed by heathens, etc. You sin, I sin - how is that possible, as we are Christians? Are you saying Christians are incapable of the "bad" sins, but of only the "lesser" sins?