Looks like you do not quite know where the RCC stands on the topic of evolution.
I think I do. Let's see...
But if it's not a doctrine of the church, how can you assert that the majority of the members of that church believes it?
It is the doctrine of the Church that evolution is consistent with Christian belief. It is not the doctrine of the Church that evolution is a fact, since that is a scientific question, and outside the magisterum of the Church.
You also have provided no source for your assertion that "orthodox Christians generally agree". It is a rather baseless assertion.
There are slightly more Catholics than all other Christians combined. And they acknowledge that evolution is consistent with our faith.
Yehren observes:
No, and you should be ashamed of yourself for stooping to make such a false accusation.
It was not an accusation, it was a personal observation based on our discussion, as I clearly stated. And I don't need lessons in morality from you, thank you very much.
You should be careful with accusations of dishonesty. They can turn around and bite you.
Yehren observes, re science's inability to support God:
You don't seem to understand that the TOE can neither agree nor disagree with that. It is too weak a method to say one way or the other. You might as well assail chemistry for not including God.
Please, no more false accusations. Let's keep this honest and civil. Your cooperation will be appreciated.
How many more times must I show you that the ToE states that genetic variation is random?
A random process, (variation) plus a directed process (natural selection) is a directed process. This is what you are having trouble understanding.
And that if nature selects, God does not select, or is God=nature?
In other words "carpenters don't drive nails; hammers drive nails." Do you see a problem with that?
And even if you make that argument, you don't seem to be able to grasp that if it selects based on randomness, there is no space for intelligence.
None for human intelligence. But God can (and does) use contingency to serve His purposes.
It can only select what is there to select, nothing else.
But it always gets where it's supposed to go. Evolution moves to a result, not a plan. How it gets there will vary. Hence analogous organs. But as the Pope says, God can use contingency as easily as anything else. We may demand that God had to do it in ways that are comprehensible to us, but that has little effect on Him, I think.
Either the selectable genetic material comes about by chance, or it comes about by design. It cannot be both.
All things are possible with God. You are just ascribing human limitations to Him.
Right now the ToE states that is by chance.
Fortunately, natural selection is the antithesis of chance. And so the process is not random, but directed.
All you have done since coming here is to assert and reassert, you have not shown any evidence or sources for your arguments, since you apparently think that you know it all, and we should just accept that.
I have cited both scripture and research here, to show what is true. I would be pleased to show you evidence for the above, although no person with training in biology or the Bible would doubt it.
Quote:
The ToE states clearly that it is a random unguided process that accounts for the diversity of life,
Yehren:
(sigh) No, that's not what it says. Please learn what it actually says. I would help you greatly in these discussions.
Sigh. Yes, that is what it says.
"Evolutionary theory is a body of statements about the processes of evolution that are believed to have caused the history of evolutionary events. Biological evolution occurs as the consequence of random and nonrandom processes.
A. Random Processes
1. Mutation
Variation in the characteristics of organisms in a population originates through random mutation of DNA sequences (genes) that affect the characteristics. Genetic variation is augmented by recombination during sexual reproduction, which results in new combinations of genes.
Variation is also augmented by gene flow, the input of new genes from other populations.
2. Genetic Drift
Genetic drift, results from random variation in the survival and reproduction of different genotypes. In genetic drift, the frequencies of alleles fluctuate by pure chance. Eventually, one allele will replace the others (i.e., it will be fixed in the population). Genetic drift is most important when the alleles of a gene are neutral and it proceeds
faster, the smaller the population is. Genetic drift results in evolutionary change, but not in adaptation.
B. Nonrandom Processes
The other major cause of change in the frequencies of alleles is natural selection, which is a name for any consistent (nonrandom) difference among organisms bearing different alleles or genotypes in their rate of survival or reproduction (i.e., their fitness) due to differences in one or more characteristics. A common consequence of natural selection is adaptation, an improvement in the average ability of the population's members to survive and reproduce in their environment. Natural selection is the ultimate cause of adaptations, but it cannot produce such adaptations unless mutation and recombination generate genetic variation on which it can act."
http://faculty.evansville.edu/de3/b3990 ... n%20random'
I know what it says. You just don't seem to want to deal with it.
But it says just the opposite of what you said it did. It clearly shows that evolution is a combination of random and nonrandom processes. And random process plus nonrandom process becomes a nonrandom process.
Would it help if I gave you an exercise to test this idea?
