Hell

[Jay_7]

Ive always believed in hell as a place, but im starting to think that there may be a chance that all the fire etc is just symbolic of how regretful and the shame you will have by rejecting God.

I know what God will do is right but burning in pain forever seems a bit harsh for someone whos skeptical and doesnt believe.. do you think it may be symbolic?

[puritan lad]

Mark 9:43-45
"If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed, rather than having two hands, to go to hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched— where ' Their worm does not die And the fire is not quenched.' And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life lame, rather than having two feet, to be cast into hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched— where ' Their worm does not die And the fire is not quenched.' And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire— where ' Their worm does not die And the fire is not quenched.'"

Matthew 10:28
"And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."

To believe that Hell is symbolic of annihilation or shame is mere wishful thinking. Jesus was adamant that Hell is a place to be avoided at all costs, including body parts. It is to be feared more than physical death. Jesus spoke of Judas.

Matthew 26:24
"The Son of Man indeed goes just as it is written of Him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been good for that man if he had not been born.”

That statement easily refutes any idea that Hell is a symbol, or that it is annihilation. It is the unquenchable, everlasting fire of God's wrath.[/b]

[Jac3510]

I think Revelation 20:10 kills the idea that Hell (better, the Lake of Fire) is a temporary place or a place where souls are annihilated or even a place of shame . . .

"And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever." (NIV)

Notice the "burning sulfur." That doesn't seem to be too symbolic does it? And notice that they are tormented "day and night for ever and ever." Again, that seems pretty explicit . . .

[numeral2_5]

It's allegory, nuff' said, topic closed.

[Jac3510]

Hmm . . . so what you are saying is that Jesus was never crucified, He certainly didn't raise from the dead, that there is no sin, nor sin nature, that there was no flood of any kind, local or not, nor a tower of babel, that the prophets' accounts are mythological, and that there was never an exodus from Egypt?

Of course you aren't saying that, so why do I ask? The reason is that the moment you start taking things as allegorical that are not explicitly stated to be as such (i.e., the kingdom of heaven being a mustard seed, or the beast with seven heads), then you have destroyed any basis you may have for a rational, consistent interpretation of Scripture. After all, if I don't want to believe that Jesus was resurrected, then I can claim allegory. If I want to believe that Judaism was a sixth century cult, then I can argue that the exodus event was a myth.

In hermeneutics (the science of interpretation), we learn to interpret Scripture in its literal, historical, and grammatical settings. If you don't consistently do this, then you have absolutely no defense for any doctrine you choose to believe.

So, it's not allegorical . . . 'nuff said

[Kokujin]

I found this online and thought it was intresting at least.

The following article appeared in the well respected Finland newspaper, Ammenusastia: "As a communist I don't believe in heaven or the Bible but as a scientist I now believe in hell," said Dr. Azzacove. "Needless to say we were shocked to make such a discovery. But we know what we saw and we know what we heard. And we are absolutely convinced that we drilled through the gates of hell!"

Dr. Azzacove continued, ". . .the drill suddenly began to rotate wildly, indicating that we had reached a large empty pocket or cavern. Temperature sensors showed a dramatic increase in heat to 2,000 degrees Fahrenheit."

"We lowered a microphone, designed to detect the sounds of plate movements down the shaft. But instead of plate movements we heard a human voice screaming in pain! At first we thought the sound was coming from our own equipment."

"But when we made adjustments our worst suspicions were confirmed. The screams weren't those of a single human, they were the screams of millions of humans!"

Click to download recordinghttp://www.jesus-is-savior.com/sounds/s ... m_hell.mp3

[Jay_7]

I heard about that before, interesting.

just listened too it, thats creepy.

[SUGAAAAA]

I've heard about that as well, but I always imagined hell being in a seperate realm, rather than inside the earth. and how far did these guys dig anyway?

It sounds a little farfetched to me, because I cant imagine a person accidentally drilling a hole in a cavern revealing hell, and then being able to look inside at hell... imagine if they continued drilling and created a huge hole in which the whole world could come and see hell, and nothing happening, it just seems absurd. and what would happen if the hole were big enough so that people could step in and out as they please? it makes no sense...

[Jay_7]

I've heard about that as well, but I always imagined hell being in a seperate realm, rather than inside the earth. and how far did these guys dig anyway?

It sounds a little farfetched to me, because I cant imagine a person accidentally drilling a hole in a cavern revealing hell, and then being able to look inside at hell... imagine if they continued drilling and created a huge hole in which the whole world could come and see hell, and nothing happening, it just seems absurd. and what would happen if the hole were big enough so that people could step in and out as they please? it makes no sense...

Thats what i thought, i dont have a certain agreement or opinion on what the article stats..

[Lady Bee]

Heh... right... Drilling holes to Hell? I don't believe that for a second.

http://www.snopes.com/religion/wellhell.htm

Not to mention that as far as I understood "Hell" isn't even supposed to exist until Christ's return and the final judgement.

[B. W.]

Not to mention that as far as I understood "Hell" isn't even supposed to exist until Christ's return and the final judgement.

Luke 16:19-30 says otherwise as does Like 12:4-5.


Rev20:11-15 "Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire." NKJV

Hade's will be cast into the lake of fire at a future date and time. The lake of fire is not hades.

Hope this sheds light that Hell exist now and not later.
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[Mystical]

Lots of good information.

[Lady Bee]

Not to mention that as far as I understood "Hell" isn't even supposed to exist until Christ's return and the final judgement.

Luke 16:19-30 says otherwise as does Like 12:4-5.


Rev20:11-15 "Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire." NKJV

Hade's will be cast into the lake of fire at a future date and time. The lake of fire is not hades.

Hope this sheds light that Hell exist now and not later.
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OK. I am quite confused. How does it clarify that Hell definitely exists now?

"Hell" may exist now but I don't think there aren't any people there yet.

This revelations passage is about the judgement, right? And the lake of fire is supposed to be Hell, right?

I thought "Hades" was the intermediate place where people's souls go if they die now, before the Judgement. It's not the same thing as the lake of fire, like you said. I thought the lake of fire was Hell. It's only at the Judgement that people are cast into Hell. Nobody is there yet. *confused*

This may not be particularly relevant but I always thought the rich man thing was supposed to be a metaphor.

And also, it's worth noting that many instances where "Hell" is talked about in the New Testament are translated from different words meaning different things. Sometimes it's Hades, sometimes it's Gehenna the always-burning-rubbish-pit (which is the case in Luke 12, I believe), a comparison that was used to make the concept of Hell easier for people to understand, or something, and sometimes it's the place of eternal torment etc..



I'm sorry if I'm just being really dense. I'm not quite surely exactly what you're trying to say. ^_^;

[Jay_7]

Hell does exist now, Hades is temporay until Jesus comes and cast them all into the lake of fire, Hades and lake of fire are two seperate places.

Paradise is also a temporay place until the new heavens and earth.

[Silvertusk]

Ive always believed in hell as a place, but im starting to think that there may be a chance that all the fire etc is just symbolic of how regretful and the shame you will have by rejecting God.

I know what God will do is right but burning in pain forever seems a bit harsh for someone whos skeptical and doesnt believe.. do you think it may be symbolic?

Reading Lee Strobels "Case for Faith" - it comes up with a good analogy of hell. Because eternal punishment is one of the stumbling blocks for faith as it seems a bit harsh to say the least - this has actually been misunderstood. Hell is a choice that each of us make and not God. We alone choose to reject God and because of that God gives us what we want which is eternal seperation from him. That is Hell - that is why there is gnashing of teeth. There is no fire - Fire is a metaphor for Judgement - all through the bible is used for precisely that - Judgement. So there will not be eternal phyiscal torture - just eternal mental anguish from being seperated from the Holy God Almighty for all of eternity - which is probably worse anyway. Its a case of - we make out bed and lie in it. God just gives us what we desire.

The above seems to malke more sense to me and it fits in with the picture of a loving God.