Why are Christians still tithing

[authentic]

i hear alot that we are still supposed to tithe as Christians even though it was part of the law of Moses. If we are now under Grace and we no longer live according to the written law but the law of the Spirit then why do we "drink new wine from old wine skins"? Furthermore, if we are to continue to tithe, then we should still obey the entire law of moses which consisted of animal sacrifices, sabbath keeping, the dietary law...etc. The bible makes no distinction. I know i will find some that will resist what i'm saying but its the truth in light of all scripture. I'm aware that this is a "sacred" tradition in most of today's churches, i'm interested to see what you think.

[IRQ Conflict]

New covenant / NT scriptures tell us we have robbed God in tithes and offerings.

Luk 20:25 And he said unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which be Caesar's and unto God the things which be God's.

Mar 12:17 And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's. And they marveled at him.

Mat 22:21 They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.

Mal 3:8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.
Mal 3:9 Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.
Mal 3:10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.

[authentic]

New covenant / NT scriptures tell us we have robbed God in tithes and offerings.

Luk 20:25 And he said unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which be Caesar's and unto God the things which be God's.

Mar 12:17 And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's. And they marveled at him.

Mat 22:21 They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.

Mal 3:8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.
Mal 3:9 Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.
Mal 3:10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.

ok where does it say that we should tithe under the new covenant again?

[Jac3510]

For the record, authentic, tithing, while commanded by the Mosaic Law, didn't originate with it. Just because something was to be done in the Law doesn't mean Christian's SHOULDN'T do it today.

Now, I don't think Christians should tithe in the Mosaic sense of the word. But, we are to honor God with everything, including our income. Giving Him the top 10% is something of a minimum . . . Abraham did it. God, of course, is still the same God today as He was then.

So, my question would be this: why not tithe?

[IRQ Conflict]

Tithes keep the Word flowing, the pastor fed and clothed, the church building maintenance and utilities have to be paid, we don't live in heaven yet

[bizzt]

I believe out of Obedience we should Tithe but not just that if you notice the first few Centuries of Christian Living they gave away all their Posessions not just the top 10%. Just imagine if every Christian Actually Tithed their 10%... The World would be completely Evangelized Twice Over!

[authentic]

For the record, authentic, tithing, while commanded by the Mosaic Law, didn't originate with it. Just because something was to be done in the Law doesn't mean Christian's SHOULDN'T do it today.

Now, I don't think Christians should tithe in the Mosaic sense of the word. But, we are to honor God with everything, including our income. Giving Him the top 10% is something of a minimum . . . Abraham did it. God, of course, is still the same God today as He was then.

So, my question would be this: why not tithe?

first off the bible doesn't teach us to tithe money. Actually money (in the old testament) wasn't an exceptable offering for the tithe. It specifically told us what to tithe and it wasn't money. And if you did tithe MONEY, then you were penalized. The true tithe according to the LAW was wine, crop of the field, ox and cattle. Never money. If they were to tithe money, then why would God tell them to "eat the tithe"? You can't eat money. If you do then you will get ill. Which leads to another question... When, or rather, what scripture says that money is now an acceptable tithe, when was it transformed or changed? If it hasn't changed and if you can't find a scripture, then everyone who tithes at this moment is tithing the wrong way. And it is unacceptable to the LAW.

[authentic]

I believe out of Obedience we should Tithe but not just that if you notice the first few Centuries of Christian Living they gave away all their Posessions not just the top 10%. Just imagine if every Christian Actually Tithed their 10%... The World would be completely Evangelized Twice Over!

I disagree.. first, the scriptures tell us to be Obedient to Christ. When Christ died, he fulfilled the entire law of Moses. And remember that the LAW was a foreshadow of the Coming Messiah. Well the Messiah has long come and gone, so if the law is fullfilled why are we still bound to it?

Secondly, you don't need money to spread the word, that is a great massive lie. Keep in mind, that Jesus didn't even have a stable home to lay his head, yet as poor as he was, he and his 12 disciples spread the gospel. Paul, the greatest apostle, was a poor man. Yet he was a major component of spreading the gospel to the gentiles. I agree that you need money to do anything, but the way that these mega-churches emphasize money and prosperity. Furthermore, dip back into the law of Moses to get money out of people is complete heresy.

[August]

Hi authentic,

While I agree with you that the incessant emphasis on giving, born out of the Purpose-driven church movement may be irritating and serving to enrich, I do think there is merit in giving to the church.

The good fruits of the body of Christ is not only evangelism, but also charity. Most of the early aid with the recent hurricanes were from Christians, distributed through churches. I know that our church was in the Gulf Coast within 24 hours, and distributed thousands of meals, water, blankets etc. We also took in ~300 displaced families, inviting them into our homes. This would not have been possible without the donations of the church body.

Also, we need to understand that everything we have comes from God. It is not through our own power that we acquire wealth, Gid is the giver. he makes us stewards of what he gives us, and expects us to do the right thing with what He entrusts to us, to give according to our ability.


2Co 9:1 Now it is superfluous for me to write to you about the ministry for the saints,
2Co 9:2 for I know your readiness, of which I boast about you to the people of Macedonia, saying that Achaia has been ready since last year. And your zeal has stirred up most of them.
2Co 9:3 But I am sending the brothers so that our boasting about you may not prove vain in this matter, so that you may be ready, as I said you would be.
2Co 9:4 Otherwise, if some Macedonians come with me and find that you are not ready, we would be humiliated--to say nothing of you--for being so confident.
2Co 9:5 So I thought it necessary to urge the brothers to go on ahead to you and arrange in advance for the gift you have promised, so that it may be ready as a willing gift, not as an exaction.
2Co 9:6 The point is this: whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows bountifully will also reap bountifully.
2Co 9:7 Each one must give as he has made up his mind, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.
2Co 9:8 And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that having all sufficiency in all things at all times, you may abound in every good work.
2Co 9:9 As it is written, "He has distributed freely, he has given to the poor; his righteousness endures forever."
2Co 9:10 He who supplies seed to the sower and bread for food will supply and multiply your seed for sowing and increase the harvest of your righteousness.
2Co 9:11 You will be enriched in every way for all your generosity, which through us will produce thanksgiving to God.
2Co 9:12 For the ministry of this service is not only supplying the needs of the saints, but is also overflowing in many thanksgivings to God.
2Co 9:13 By their approval of this service, they will glorify God because of your submission flowing from your confession of the gospel of Christ, and the generosity of your contribution for them and for all others,
2Co 9:14 while they long for you and pray for you, because of the surpassing grace of God upon you.
2Co 9:15 Thanks be to God for his inexpressible gift!

[bizzt]

Let's read the Word

Luk 11:39 And the Lord said unto him, Now ye the Pharisees cleanse the outside of the cup and of the platter; but your inward part is full of extortion and wickedness.
Luk 11:40 Ye foolish ones, did not he that made the outside make the inside also?
Luk 11:41 But give for alms those things which are within; and behold, all things are clean unto you.
Luk 11:42 But woe unto you Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and every herb, and pass over justice and the love of God: but these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
Luk 11:43 Woe unto you Pharisees! for ye love the chief seats in the synagogues, and the salutations in the marketplaces.
Luk 11:44 Woe unto you! for ye are as the tombs which appear not, and the men that walk over them know it not.


11:42 in particular says for they Tithe Mint and rue and every Herb and the pass Judgement and the love of God. Yet Jesus says these ought ye to have done AND not leave the other Undone (meaning the Tithe)

Or how about this one

Mat 23:21 And he that sweareth by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth therein.
Mat 23:22 And he that sweareth by the heaven, sweareth by the throne of God, and by him that sitteth thereon.
Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye tithe mint and anise and cummin, and have left undone the weightier matters of the law, justice, and mercy, and faith: but these ye ought to have done, and not to have left the other undone.
Mat 23:24 Ye blind guides, that strain out the gnat, and swallow the camel!
Mat 23:25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye cleanse the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full from extortion and excess.

What you are missing here is that they Tithed their Wheat, Grain etc... Because it was their LivelyHood... Money unfortunately Allows us to buy those things. To pay the Pastor, to have people Evangelize around the World. It is funny how you say everyone was Poor! I don't know where you got that from Scripture? Can you expand and give some Scriptural Reference

Thanks

[IRQ Conflict]

Heh, Jesus was not poor. Study

You take 'fulfilled' out of context. 'think not that I have come to abolish the law'.

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.

[authentic]

Hi authentic,

While I agree with you that the incessant emphasis on giving, born out of the Purpose-driven church movement may be irritating and serving to enrich, I do think there is merit in giving to the church.

The good fruits of the body of Christ is not only evangelism, but also charity. Most of the early aid with the recent hurricanes were from Christians, distributed through churches. I know that our church was in the Gulf Coast within 24 hours, and distributed thousands of meals, water, blankets etc. We also took in ~300 displaced families, inviting them into our homes. This would not have been possible without the donations of the church body.

Also, we need to understand that everything we have comes from God. It is not through our own power that we acquire wealth, Gid is the giver. he makes us stewards of what he gives us, and expects us to do the right thing with what He entrusts to us, to give according to our ability.


2Co 9:1 Now it is superfluous for me to write to you about the ministry for the saints,
2Co 9:2 for I know your readiness, of which I boast about you to the people of Macedonia, saying that Achaia has been ready since last year. And your zeal has stirred up most of them.
2Co 9:3 But I am sending the brothers so that our boasting about you may not prove vain in this matter, so that you may be ready, as I said you would be.
2Co 9:4 Otherwise, if some Macedonians come with me and find that you are not ready, we would be humiliated--to say nothing of you--for being so confident.
2Co 9:5 So I thought it necessary to urge the brothers to go on ahead to you and arrange in advance for the gift you have promised, so that it may be ready as a willing gift, not as an exaction.
2Co 9:6 The point is this: whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows bountifully will also reap bountifully.
2Co 9:7 Each one must give as he has made up his mind, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.
2Co 9:8 And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that having all sufficiency in all things at all times, you may abound in every good work.
2Co 9:9 As it is written, "He has distributed freely, he has given to the poor; his righteousness endures forever."
2Co 9:10 He who supplies seed to the sower and bread for food will supply and multiply your seed for sowing and increase the harvest of your righteousness.
2Co 9:11 You will be enriched in every way for all your generosity, which through us will produce thanksgiving to God.
2Co 9:12 For the ministry of this service is not only supplying the needs of the saints, but is also overflowing in many thanksgivings to God.
2Co 9:13 By their approval of this service, they will glorify God because of your submission flowing from your confession of the gospel of Christ, and the generosity of your contribution for them and for all others,
2Co 9:14 while they long for you and pray for you, because of the surpassing grace of God upon you.
2Co 9:15 Thanks be to God for his inexpressible gift!

i apologize if i didn't make my self clear. I'm not saying that we shouldn't give, in support of the church and those that labor in the gospel. I'm in full agreeance that we should give to them. My problem is the way how churches use tactics of twisting scripture to get money out of people. I believe that if you have a congregation that is sincere and have a loving and giving heart, then they will "cheerfully give" what they can to help support the gospel. But i'm not so nieve to think that my service is only to the church building, my service is to all that is in need. Meaning that if I set money aside to give an offering to the church, but someone close to me is in need of food, then it would be God's will for me to give them that money to help them. This is what i mean. But according to the Law of tithing, the way the churches tell it, you should just pray for them, but your tithe money is only for tithes and nothing else.

[authentic]

Luk 11:39 And the Lord said unto him, Now ye the Pharisees cleanse the outside of the cup and of the platter; but your inward part is full of extortion and wickedness.
Luk 11:40 Ye foolish ones, did not he that made the outside make the inside also?
Luk 11:41 But give for alms those things which are within; and behold, all things are clean unto you.
Luk 11:42 But woe unto you Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and every herb, and pass over justice and the love of God: but these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

ok lets break this down, when jesus told them "but these ought ye to have done and not leave the others undone".. Keep in mind that as long as Christ walked the earth, the law was sill in effect. But it wasn't until he DIED on the cross that the law was fulfilled. This was the entire reason that he had to die. Therefore, temple worship was still in effect. Daily, weekly, and yearly sacrifices were still performed. Tithing was still done, basically the entire law was still observed. But once again, now that he died and fulfilled the law, we are no longer bound by the rigid rules and ceremonies and rituals of the law.

[authentic]

IRQ Conflict"]Heh, Jesus was not poor. Study

i've already studied, thanks though"

Matt. 8:19-20: "Then a certain scribe came and said to Him, "Teacher, I will follow You wherever You go." And Jesus said to him, "Foxes have holes and birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay His head." if he was rich why did he not have a place to lay his head?

2 Cor.8:9" being rich , yet for your sakes he became poor, so that through his poverty you might become rich" now before you start shouting, this is talking about spritual riches,.. not money, gold, nor silver.

You take 'fulfilled' out of context. 'think not that I have come to abolish the law'.

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.
i have not taken fulfilled out of context the word fulfulled in relation to this passage means this:

fulfill: To measure up to; satisfy.

now if the old law of Moses was still in effect then why would God (through Paul say this)?

2 Corinthians 3: 6-18

"6Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

7But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

8How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

9For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

10For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.

11For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.

12Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:

13And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:

14But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.

15But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.

16Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.

17Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

18But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord."

[authentic]

What you are missing here is that they Tithed their Wheat, Grain etc... Because it was their LivelyHood... Money unfortunately Allows us to buy those things. To pay the Pastor, to have people Evangelize around the World. It is funny how you say everyone was Poor! I don't know where you got that from Scripture? Can you expand and give some Scriptural Reference

Thanks

lol... i never said that everyone was poor, i said Jesus and Paul were poor. i will give you biblical evidence of what i was talking about in a little while.. I must get back to work, but i will SURELY have those scriptures for you!! stay tuned......