fetishes

[Grace isn't enough...]

true you want to avoid legalism but you also want to avoid situational ethics. there you basically become you're own god, deciding what is or isnt right. obviously both bad and good things can be corrupted and sinful...so it is going to work the other way - sinful things can appear to be innocent or good. Just a generalization to consider i guess...speaking of generalizations, i am curious as to what you consider boundaries though. To lust after n e thing u cant have is sinful so be it an object or women/man it is wrong. with that out of the way as far as something that can get you arroused....isnt that the role of your spouse? doesnt that job belong to your spouse? since it is w/ only them you can acually engage in sex. just a thought...Getting w/e arrousel from the fetish or w/e it is still may happen, and that is just as natural as n e other sin; i nthat we all sometimes fall short....but to follow through with that desire and stamp the ok on it seems kinda self serving....

however i dunno if this can work for all fetishes since i myself seem to have a leg(NOT FOOT) fetish. i do not know why lol. If htye are the legs of my wife and its treated as something that im attracted to about her than i dunno how that can be veiwed as wrong...so aybe it isnt...or maybe it is...? im ramblin again and wow ive goten way off topic and i dunno if n e one can understand this so maybe you guys can just ignore this....

[Blacknad]

Canuckster - a very sensible and balanced approach, thanks.

I would just say that IMO mind altering substance are definitely not permissable for the Christian.

Having taken some myself as a stupid and irresponsible Christian teen, I can say that they do not just 'alter' the mind, but you can in fact relinquish control of your mind. I believe when you do this you give up control of your mind and it may be that demonic spirits will appropriate the control that you have given up.

I am not saying in all cases, but it is a very real possibility that should not be risked.

I know a number of Christians that have had hellish experiences with mind altering drugs - I know of a friend who had a severe psychosis with cannabis that left him for two years a nervous wreck convinced that he had been forsaken by God and was on the verge of going to Hell. You cannot even begin to imagine his pain and terror - he had to be constantly heavily medicated because of the intense trauma he was suffering from.

I had a nightmare experience on LSD that left me spiritually paralysed for a whole year and still to this day affects my outlook.

I would strongly urge all Christians to stay clear of any drugs. I believe that for the non-Christian it is not so bad, but the Christian may inadvertently hand himself to the devil who 'prowls like a ferocious lion' and desires to rip the believers mind to shreds if he is permitted.

Even if a Christian is spared this with drugs I still feel there are subtle but pernicious effects of drugs upon the believer.



Grace isn't enough... I understand what you are saying about the conscience being a bit relative, but by conscience I mean the collective total of Prayer, Scriptural Knowledge, the Promptings of the Holy Spirit and the Wisdom and advice of fellow believers and leaders.

I am just saying that the best Christian leaders have not spoon fed me answers about what is right or wrong, but have sent me to search and find out for myself through the above mentioned aspects of conscience.

It is far better to encourage a Christian to directly engage with God and find not only the answer but deepen his relationship at the same time, than to just give out answers and edicts.

It seems to me to also act as a guard against the worst excesses of organised religion which can manipulate believers and cause all sorts of wickedness and injustice to be done in Christ's name. Better to allow the believer the freedom to interpret the finer points of Christian behaviour within a framework or creed of essential belief.

Regards,

Blacknad.

[Blacknad]

true you want to avoid legalism but you also want to avoid situational ethics. there you basically become you're own god, deciding what is or isnt right.

Grace...

This simply is not true. Where scripture is clear about what is wrong there is obviously no argument, but as it cannot inform us about every possible facet of human behavior then we are left with two things.

1. We extrapolate from biblical principles. For example, anything that makes us subject to it, instead of being subject to us (say an addiction) then it is clearly something the believer needs to give up and be free from. This is a biblical principle.

2. We rely upon the promptings of the Holy Spirit who will convict us of sin or give us peace on an issue.


See the following for a brief but helpful examinataion of the Holy Spirit's role in providing a conscience:

http://www.lproof.org/Devotions/2004/AC ... cience.htm

This is not to say that it may not still be relative at times (as Canuckster helpfully pointed out) for some things are problematic to some but not to others.

Regards,

Blacknad.

[Grace isn't enough...]

id just liek to disregard my last comment in this thread...lol. um hey thanks for gettin back to me. I see what you are saying and acually couldnt agree more. A real problem with forums is sometimes one cannot convey a point w/o it sounding like something else. but i see where iam wrong and i thank you for your light, but heartfelt REBUKTION lol. thanks again.

The whole reletivity was really all i was trying to say...my other babblings werent ment to hold up to examination i just talk sometimes...

Irregards

grace isn't enough...

[Canuckster1127]

Canuckster - a very sensible and balanced approach, thanks.

I would just say that IMO mind altering substance are definitely not permissable for the Christian.

Having taken some myself as a stupid and irresponsible Christian teen, I can say that they do not just 'alter' the mind, but you can in fact relinquish control of your mind. I believe when you do this you give up control of your mind and it may be that demonic spirits will appropriate the control that you have given up.

I am not saying in all cases, but it is a very real possibility that should not be risked.

I know a number of Christians that have had hellish experiences with mind altering drugs - I know of a friend who had a severe psychosis with cannabis that left him for two years a nervous wreck convinced that he had been forsaken by God and was on the verge of going to Hell. You cannot even begin to imagine his pain and terror - he had to be constantly heavily medicated because of the intense trauma he was suffering from.

I had a nightmare experience on LSD that left me spiritually paralysed for a whole year and still to this day affects my outlook.

I would strongly urge all Christians to stay clear of any drugs. I believe that for the non-Christian it is not so bad, but the Christian may inadvertently hand himself to the devil who 'prowls like a ferocious lion' and desires to rip the believers mind to shreds if he is permitted.

Even if a Christian is spared this with drugs I still feel there are subtle but pernicious effects of drugs upon the believer.



Grace isn't enough... I understand what you are saying about the conscience being a bit relative, but by conscience I mean the collective total of Prayer, Scriptural Knowledge, the Promptings of the Holy Spirit and the Wisdom and advice of fellow believers and leaders.

I am just saying that the best Christian leaders have not spoon fed me answers about what is right or wrong, but have sent me to search and find out for myself through the above mentioned aspects of conscience.

It is far better to encourage a Christian to directly engage with God and find not only the answer but deepen his relationship at the same time, than to just give out answers and edicts.

It seems to me to also act as a guard against the worst excesses of organised religion which can manipulate believers and cause all sorts of wickedness and injustice to be done in Christ's name. Better to allow the believer the freedom to interpret the finer points of Christian behaviour within a framework or creed of essential belief.

Regards,

Blacknad.

That's what I get for typing so fast.

I'm not advocating the use of mind-altering drugs recreationally. When I wrote that I was thinking about medicinally for legal purposes.

I actually have never used drugs illegally. I have had to use some in different situations as presecribed when I was a cancer patient and then since then for some different medical issues. That is what I was thinking of.

I'm not suggesting that ethics are primarily situational. When I advocate eschewing legalism, I am not arguing for antinomianism of libertine lifestyle.

I'm talking about the narrow area between boundaries that are clearly inside Biblical and Social law.

Sexual fetishes per se are almost always harmful in my observation and personal experience because they clearly elevate some element outside of the boundaries of a christian marriage relationship.

Lust is lust and last I checked it is still on the seven deadly sin list. However, having elements of such things within a Christian marriage are not necessarily inherently wrong where they are in the context of a healthy relationship and they do not place the spouse in the role of an object being used for the other's enjoyment outside that context.

I probably didn't empasize that strong enough in my first pass and I can see why I got some of this response.

Thanks for the response helping focus.

[Grace isn't enough...]

I think that fetishes come from us, not satan...thats like saying satan is responsible for all evil...we are, through the power of choice evil may manifest. Fetishes are something we develope, like ne thing else. i like the color green. i like salty black olives. I like certain colors and sounds and tastes everywhere over other certain sounds colors and so on. its a matter of taste and preference based upon how we each individually develope. Satan then comes in and trys to use our likes, dislikes to his advantage. i just think that this particular thing(fetishes) is immoral when having sex with your spouse if it takes any of the attention away from her or like i look at it this way. you're having sex with your wife/husband because u married them. so, it is them that u should be getting the sexual arrousel from(at least, thats the arrousel you should follow through with). n e forgien object or force isnt a part of the your marriage itself thus shouldnt be a part of your sex. This of course unless its directly related to your spouse for example if you happen to like their hair to the point of arrousel. I dont see anything wrong with that so long as you didnt marry him/her just for the hair of course.

more babbling....

[Blacknad]

A real problem with forums is sometimes one cannot convey a point w/o it sounding like something else

Oh how right you are, Grace.... It is so easy to misrepresent yourself or over-emphasize a certain point, or by omission make a statement unbalanced. It sometimes takes a number of posts to effectively lay down your position. But regardless of that, isn't it a wonderful thing to have these conversations with people that you would never naturally meet from all over the world?

Regards,

Blacknad.

[Grace isn't enough...]

i is it really is....i was so stoked when i first came to this site...now i dunno lol jk

Looking forward to more posts with you and other complete strangers in Chirst

Regards,

Grace isn't enough