tarreyl wrote:why should women have to go full term with a baby when they were raped and they would be remind off what happened or it was traumatic for this girl to get rapped then to have to have this baby to full term or a medical reason that but the mother in harms way? should the mother die for the baby? How Can I has a Christen tell other women not to do it. How is it different If people shot each other or kill. DO we has christen have the right to condem them for there choices? How can we tell them it right or wrong were do we get the right to judge them like that? That is god place not Christens
Why should a Baby Lose its Life? Did the Woman Lose hers? Was it terminated by the man who Raped her? Does that still give her the right to kill an Innocent Victim?
I think the question you said here should be answered by you
"How is it different If people shot each other or kill."
Is it Different to kill an innocent Child then it is a Toddler or Adult? It says in the Bible that God Knew you in your Mothers Womb! Does that not tell you something. If you abort you Murder! Plain and Simple whether the Government sees it that way or not! We have an obligation to tell people they have sinned! If we see something Morally Wrong it is our obligation to say something!
Hey well i dunno quite what everyone in this thread has said i just read the last comment cuz im lazy lol. So, if im sayin stuff and bein redundant i apologize.
Rape is definatley where this subject gets a little iffy. Any yet, at the same time, this subject, when seen for what it truly is, never should get "iffy," to quote myself, and i did, so ends my run on sentance, quite obnoxiously long i might add.
Like old man jenkins stated above, is it right to kill an innocent? Now obviously i took that out of context, as i often do...but i think i got the jist of it. As horible and just so so very sad as rape or any situation that renders a women left to take care of a baby alone is sad....however never in the United states constitution does it allow the killing of one to compensate for the mistakes or misfortunes of another...im sorry but that is law moral or not.
Now what i think about the situation from a moral standpoint...I am acually much more CRITICAL. It is a genralization but still holds true so often of the time that the fact is there are many women out there who seek male attention for onereason or another...be it their own fault or someone elses. there are also simply premiscuous people out there male and female who are irrisponsible....just look at what our society supports through tv, movies magazines etc. Sad to say it but sometimes people bring it on themselves and do not want to accept the responsibility for what they've done. this all, a generalization yes, but ladies and gentlemen i implore you.
N e way...yeah...so...Im sorry if i offended ne one who did not "have it coming" - im sorry for the crime that was done to you, i really am. i have friends who have been through the same thing and its not fun. that was probably the biggest understatement ive ever made.
To end my tangient, i just wanna say that as cold as this line may sound, it really iswhat we all need to remember. God is in control...no matter how bad the situation is...and even though its rough,(another horrible understatement) God will not bring us to n e thing we cant handle. thats at least what they tell me
Grace, you didn't say that rape victims "have it coming", you said that there are promiscuous people who have to face the consequences of their behaviour. Don't be so hard on yourself about that.
I no doubt am going to get utterly flamed for this, but nevermind.
I am going to plant my colours in the "pro-choice" ring. I think instead of us going that this is sacred from point X onwards (what about the status of the 'person' during the process which turns it into a person?) What should matter is the potential of this 'proto-person' to form an adult. I suppose you could call me a bit of a relativist, insofar that I think abortion can be (although not always IS) justifiable. Many people, from what I am reading dislike anything relativistic, in response, I would have you answer a question:
If I was a mad physicist who had constructed a doomsday device which would destroy the planet, and my terms for me not to do it were that you conducted an abortion on my wife, who wanted one, would you?
Now, if your answer is no, then fair enough, you are a moral absolutist, however, if you say you would, for whatever reason, even if you say that some rules have precedence over others, then your decisions are somewhat determined by their consequences.
I am going to accord with what bluesman has said wholeheartedly. Whilst you can say the woman is not the only 'person' who is important (although at what stage you decide 'person' as opposed to clump of cells is probably more than a minor bone of contention.) The pregnant woman is hardly a disinterested party. Whilst her interests might well be considerably less important than another human beings right to life, they are worth mention. I think if you are against abortion, you will need to use the carrot more than the stick, simply because if someone wants to have an abortion and it is illegal, they can go somewhere it is legal. It unfortunately is common in the republic of Ireland. Perhaps even if we consider abortion categorically wrong, it is perhaps better to allow Women to 'sin' by having an abortion in a hospital where, at least, risk to their own health is much lower. Whilst it might be better if it didn't happen at all, if the woman is committed to this course of action, we surely must try and ensure the least harm comes of it as possible?
As Veronica has pointed out, Abortion is not a 'fun' experience. I am pretty sure women do it, rightly or otherwise, because they think it is the right thing to do. It can certainly be clouded by self interest, or the Womans disbelief that the fetus is really a person, etc. However, if we act to make conditions easier for women, then that is surely a good thing? Perhaps we will ultimately have a method of being able to sustain zygotes from conception onwards via medical technology. This would, hopefully make abortion a null issue. In the meanwhile, surely a compassionate approach which attempts persuasion (like Bgood and Bluesman are suggesting, if I catch their drift correctly) surely quite a good idea? I am pretty sure the moment you step over the line from trying to persuade and help to threaten and intimidate, you lose more than you gain, simply because you gain the reputation as idiotic, scripture bound fundies blind to the world around them.
Why is it that moral relativists, in their attempt to attack moral absolutism, are forced to make up the most absurd "what if" stories? And, of course, your little tap-dance against moral absolutism only works if in fact it is true. Meaning you make no sense. "If A is true, then A cannot be true..."
"My actions prove that God takes care of idiots."
He occasionally stumbled over the truth, but hastily picked himself up and hurried on as if nothing had happened.
- On Stanley Baldwin
-Winston Churchill
An atheist can't find God for the same reason a criminal can't find a police officer.
You need to start asking out girls so that you can get used to the rejections.
-Anonymous
simply because you gain the reputation as idiotic, scripture bound fundies blind to the world around them.
Threatening and intimidating is not what all this is about. If you murder you should be held accountable no? Our job is to make abortion illegal so the blood is not on the hands of the nation but on the indavidules who perpetrate it. This should be done by voters, unfourtunatly most of them either don't believe in God or they have been decieved into thinking that it's the mothers right to kill her unborn child if she wants to.
Jesus was a Scripture bound fundie.
Jam 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.
Mat 5:11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
Mat 5:12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.
Mat 5:13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savor, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.
Mat 5:14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill cannot be hid.
The time of separation is comming, the chaff to the fire and the wheat to the barn. Come Lord Jesus! Amen.
1Ti 6:20 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:
1Ti 6:21 Which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Grace be with thee. Amen.
"I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." - Mark Twain
thank's kateliz...I really don't care either way life of others and their babies mean nothing to me anyway...lol jk! thanks for the kind words i just can't imagine how sensitive this might be dfor some.
I agree with what's his face...good ol what's his face. If you're goin to sit there and decide, on your own, the nicer of too evils you basically become you're own god, thus evil doings, no matter how extreme or not they seem, mean nothing. it's not our job to decide what is or isn't something we can get away with if the situation calls for it. That's already been done for us. I think the logical thing to do would be to take each situation in as it presents itself(duh). So, this way we don't leave out the factor God is in control.
Furthermore we are to obey the laws of man unless they conflict with God's law. Even apart from this fact there is alwasy the idea that just because it is law, doesn't make it right. How many reformations of different factions throughout history have mistreated people with corruption yadda yadda yadda you get it so don't even begin to infer that if i go to a legalized hospital it makes the crime n e better - from both a moral and what i believe to be a lawful perspective, given that i believe it conflicts with our constitution...)
I'm glad to see so many people care about this issue, i hope that fire never dies no matter what side you're on because if there's no passion then nothing will ever change. I of course can only hope though that we don't insist on ripping into eachother because while some can get across their meaning in a few words, i sometimes take quite a few words, leaving me open for viscious assault. maybe i should just stop talking then, hm.
I found that by being an annoying person you're less annoyed by people.
how can we has christens judge people for what they do with there body. Jesus told us that god will judge us and how are we being christen going around judging other christen what does that show for us. What if the womens had health issues and if she had the baby it would put risk to her and the baby if she went through with the pregnacy should she go through with it if it means her dieing or hurting her? it easy for men to say that abortion is murder because they don't know what it is like to get raped and then to have to person who raped you child inside them or have to carry that burden. People who say that they regret abortion should find out what it is they do to the baby before they do it. They should ask question saying oh I didn't know what they do to the baby is irsponsable to say that they don't know. They even have the wait 24 hours to decide so then to say they regret it they should find out what abortion is first before they do it.
The woman can do what she likes with her own body, but not what she does to someone elses. Further, this is not a gender issue since there are many women who are pro-life. Yet I do see abortion being legalised as more a form of male domination over women. For there are many men who don't want to commit or who don't wish to take responsibility, who would pressure women to get rid of her baby if she fell pregnant.
Now the issue is about what is the status of the unborn. If the "little one" (fetus) is a human life then I see noone has the right to take another human life. Therefore the same human rights should apply to the "little one" as a born human being.
Kurieuo
"Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." (Romans 10:13)
Yeah I agree. I too also think that it may be easier for some males to just sorta "meh" the whole situation since they, like me, will never have to go through that burden as you put it. However, God does want us correct or rebuke someone in their sinful ways, loveingly of course. This doesn't mean that i or anyone who truly follows christ should doom women getting abortions to their...doom - THAT'S God's job.
We do have an obligation to help others when they sin, as they would hopefully help us, all this, out of love.
If the little one's a person, which i believe he is, then it is his body thus not the mother's choice. The funny thing is even if the baby was born, even then we wouldnt give the baby the choice to kill himself so why hand it over to the mother?
As far as, what if they are in danger of getting hurt goes, there in lies faith, trust in God. while that might sound kinda lame or leave you wanting more...God really is in control and ultimatley the misfortunes of one can should never be a ligitimate excuse for the death of another.
I found that by being an annoying person you're less annoyed by people.
Grace, you didn't say that rape victims "have it coming", you said that there are promiscuous people who have to face the consequences of their behaviour. Don't be so hard on yourself about that. 
