G&S's endtimes article is absurd!

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purelyironic
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G&S's endtimes article is absurd!

Post by purelyironic »

In the first dream, Daniel saw four great beasts coming up from out of the "Great Sea," which many biblical scholars believe refers to the Mediterranean Sea:

1. The first beast was like a lion, and it had eagle's wings (Daniel 7:4).
* The lion refers to Babylon, the regal and majestic kingdom.
The lion was not babylon... it is England! The eagles wings will makes sense with the next verse i post.

Daniel 7:4 says:
The first [was] like a lion, and had eagle's wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man's heart was given to it.

^Sounds seemingly familiar to how America(whose animal symbol is the eagle) split off from England(whose animal symbol is the lion)

Furthermore:,
Revelation 12:14 shows a woman, Israel, being given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness for three and one-half years where she is protected from Satan. Could these eagle's wings possibly be the United States? The U.S. has certainly been Israel's protector in these times.
2. The second beast was like a bear. It was raised up on one side and had three ribs in its mouth (Daniel 7:5).
* The bear refers to Medo-Persia, which was stronger on one side than the other (the Medes were stronger than the Persians).
The bear is russia.
3. The third beast was like a leopard, which had four heads and four sets of wings (Daniel 7:6).
* The third beast, the leopard, refers to Greece, which swept across the world with rapid ferocity under Alexander the Great, then divided into four kingdoms (the leopard's four heads) after Alexander's death.
It says the leopard has 4 heads. Each head resembles the rise of Germany(Germanys animal symbol is the leopard). Germany has already had 3 riches(rises) and 3 falls. The 4th rise started when the Berlin wall came down.

Nothing to do with greece.

4. The fourth beast was "dreadful and terrible, exceedingly strong." It had huge iron teeth, and it devoured everything. It made war with God's people and broke them into pieces.
* The fourth kingdom is Rome, which is again pictured as a cruel and fierce iron monster.
Complete verse:
Daniel 7:21-23, I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them, Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

Verse that compliments it:
Revelation 13:7 says, And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kinds, and tongues, and nations.

Notice that this predicts that the coming world government will have power over all nations. Furthermore, the leader of this world government, a man the Bible calls the Antichrist, will make war against true Christians that will be on earth at the time.

Both of these prophecies, foretell a government that will rule over all the earth. They also state that the ruler of the prophesied world government will launch a time of terrible religious persecution.

It has nothing to do with Rome.
This dream also takes a closer look at the future manifestation of Rome, which is pictured here as being comprised of ten horns, or nations, corresponding with the ten toes of iron and clay from King Nebuchadnezzar's dream.
Wrong.

In Revelation 13:1-3, one beast is depicted, but this single beast has the body of the leopard, the feet of the bear, the mouth of the lion, and the ten horns of the ten-horned beast.

The lion resembles England,(their animal symbol) and it is the mouth, because, the one world government in which this beast resembles, is going to use the English language for world wide communication(which already is the world language)

The bear represents Russia. It is the feet because their massive population will most likely be the ground support?(it will become more understandable as time moves forward)

The 10 horns represent the 10 nations of the common market or the new holy roman empire. If you do not believe the holy roman empire is making a comeback, you need to do some research. There is already a European currency, a world court, and a European Union with a constitution. Look it up on google
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Post by Jac3510 »

This is the kind of garbage that gives the typological/futurist position a bad name. Pure . . . as a dispensational premillennialist (meaning, among other things, I believe there will be a rapture, seven year tribulation, and a following millennial kingdom), you REALLY need to reconsider your position. It's absurd.
Proinsias wrote:I don't think you are hearing me. Preference for ice cream is a moral issue
And that, brothers and sisters, is the kind of foolishness you get people who insist on denying biblical theism. A good illustration of any as the length people will go to avoid acknowledging basic truths.
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BGoodForGoodSake
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Re: G&S's endtimes article is absurd!

Post by BGoodForGoodSake »

purelyironic wrote:
In the first dream, Daniel saw four great beasts coming up from out of the "Great Sea," which many biblical scholars believe refers to the Mediterranean Sea:

1. The first beast was like a lion, and it had eagle's wings (Daniel 7:4).
* The lion refers to Babylon, the regal and majestic kingdom.
The lion was not babylon... it is England! The eagles wings will makes sense with the next verse i post.

...

...

...

The 10 horns represent the 10 nations of the common market or the new holy roman empire. If you do not believe the holy roman empire is making a comeback, you need to do some research. There is already a European currency, a world court, and a European Union with a constitution. Look it up on google
ROFL!!!!

It ... all ... makes ... sence ... now!
It is not length of life, but depth of life. -- Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Canuckster1127
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Re: G&S's endtimes article is absurd!

Post by Canuckster1127 »

BGoodForGoodSake wrote:
purelyironic wrote:
In the first dream, Daniel saw four great beasts coming up from out of the "Great Sea," which many biblical scholars believe refers to the Mediterranean Sea:

1. The first beast was like a lion, and it had eagle's wings (Daniel 7:4).
* The lion refers to Babylon, the regal and majestic kingdom.
The lion was not babylon... it is England! The eagles wings will makes sense with the next verse i post.

...

...

...

The 10 horns represent the 10 nations of the common market or the new holy roman empire. If you do not believe the holy roman empire is making a comeback, you need to do some research. There is already a European currency, a world court, and a European Union with a constitution. Look it up on google
ROFL!!!!

It ... all ... makes ... sence ... now!
Amazing how God chose to write this thousands of years ago to make perfect sense to me now.

The sun is not the center of our solar system.

I am.

:shock: :roll:
purelyironic
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Post by purelyironic »

You dismiss it as garbage yet do nothing to back it up.

We are nearing the endtimes and the bible tells us what is going to happen in the final years.

The fact that it makes sense now is one of the things that makes the bible so powerful. A book written 2000 years ago is predicting the events that are unfolding now.

I suggest buying the videos from this site.
http://www.endtime.com/

At least whatch the free demo ones.
http://www.endtime.com/videos.asp
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Post by Canuckster1127 »

purelyironic wrote:You dismiss it as garbage yet do nothing to back it up.

We are nearing the endtimes and the bible tells us what is going to happen in the final years.

The fact that it makes sense now is one of the things that makes the bible so powerful. A book written 2000 years ago is predicting the events that are unfolding now.

I suggest buying the videos from this site.
http://www.endtime.com/

At least whatch the free demo ones.
http://www.endtime.com/videos.asp
I don't dismiss it as garbage, nor do I ridicule you or anyone else for your beliefs in this area.

I am a futurist. I believe in the literal return of Christ. I think that return is imminent, meaning it could occur at any time. If there is any verse that I apply as contingent to that, it is Matt 24:14 and therefore I am part of a Church that takes the great commission seriously and seeks to witness agressively around the world.

That being said, I think it is a huge leap to seek to apply Biblical Prophecy dogmatically into modern times. I think we run the mistake of seeing possibility as plausibility. I have enough stress and fear to deal with in all elements of my life without seeking to manufacture it further in this manner. I know that this is ultimately hope and I certainly will rejoice should this prove to be the time. Unfortunately my experience with this type of teaching and the mentality of those I grew up with who taught it to me, was not in the context of hope. It was fear and manipulation and as a result, I've chosen not to buy into the system as I see it.

I'm not a big fan of Hal Lindsay and the legacy of his type of prophetic interpretations. I think they do more harm than good.

That's my opinion. I accept that others don't agree and that they are no less Christians, hopefully than I am.

Forgive me if I try to find some humor in the situation from time to time.
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Post by purelyironic »

Your beleif that the end of the world will come once the testimony has been preached to all nations does not contradict Irvin Baxter's understanding of the End Times.

This guy has spent his entire life studying the phropecies. He host a radio show, runs a magazine, creates informative movies, all with the purpose of strengthening christians relation ship with Christ and brining thoughsands of non believers to Christ.

His ministry is a powerful tool for preaching to all nations. He has left copies of his magazine at the doorstep of every home in jeruselum and it had a positive effect.

Ignorance is never the path to wisdom. The more you know the better your preaching.
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Post by Canuckster1127 »

purelyironic wrote:Your beleif that the end of the world will come once the testimony has been preached to all nations does not contradict Irvin Baxter's understanding of the End Times.

This guy has spent his entire life studying the phropecies. He host a radio show, runs a magazine, creates informative movies, all with the purpose of strengthening christians relation ship with Christ and brining thoughsands of non believers to Christ.

His ministry is a powerful tool for preaching to all nations. He has left copies of his magazine at the doorstep of every home in jeruselum and it had a positive effect.

Ignorance is never the path to wisdom. The more you know the better your preaching.
Well, it's certainly a great comfort to me to know that my belief based on Matt 24:14 has the Irvin Baxter seal of approval. Thanks for letting me know. ;)
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Post by BGoodForGoodSake »

Canuckster1127 wrote:
purelyironic wrote:Your beleif that the end of the world will come once the testimony has been preached to all nations does not contradict Irvin Baxter's understanding of the End Times.

This guy has spent his entire life studying the phropecies. He host a radio show, runs a magazine, creates informative movies, all with the purpose of strengthening christians relation ship with Christ and brining thoughsands of non believers to Christ.

His ministry is a powerful tool for preaching to all nations. He has left copies of his magazine at the doorstep of every home in jeruselum and it had a positive effect.

Ignorance is never the path to wisdom. The more you know the better your preaching.
Well, it's certainly a great comfort to me to know that my belief based on Matt 24:14 has the Irvin Baxter seal of approval. Thanks for letting me know. ;)
ROFL #2!!!
It is not length of life, but depth of life. -- Ralph Waldo Emerson
purelyironic
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Post by purelyironic »

I find it interesting how whenever i debate other christians on this issue all they can do is ignore and flame.

I had a friend who was a member of the Church of Christ denomination and they believe the rapture and everything already happened.

Me: "Oh really? Tell me one time in history when an army of 200 million existed.'

Him: "(stomps feet)"
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Post by Canuckster1127 »

purelyironic wrote:I find it interesting how whenever i debate other christians on this issue all they can do is ignore and flame.

I had a friend who was a member of the Church of Christ denomination and they believe the rapture and everything already happened.

Me: "Oh really? Tell me one time in history when an army of 200 million existed.'

Him: "(stomps feet)"
The more dogmatic people are with regard to prophecy, the more I tend to minimize what they have to say.

When people elevate a particular teacher above all others in terms of the system de jour, I have all kinds of warning signals go off.

No offense. It is God to judge. I sincerely doubt that God shrouded these elements of prophecy throughout the ages in order to wait for Irvin Baxter, or anyone else to wow us with their ability to come up with allegorical parallels to modern socio-political developments.

Of course I could be wrong.

If I'm wrong, I'll apologize in person to you and Irvine on the way up in the rapture.

If you and Irvine are wrong, Irvine will publish another book with the appropriate revision after the next major political shift. For an additional, $19.95 you can get the DVD.

God bless America .... (The eagle .....)
Dogmatism is the comfortable intellectual framework of self-righteousness. Self-righteousness is more decadent than the worst sexual sin. ~ Dan Allender
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Post by Jac3510 »

I don't know the history of your discussions with Christiand, Iggy, but if they are anything like what you've just presented here, then then the reason you get dismissed out of hand is both the nature of your interpretation and the nature of your presentation of it.

Concerning the interpretation you would have us believe, the primarily problem is that it is purely arbitrary. You are basing your entire interpretation on a series of coincidences. The lion is England, and the wings are America, because the lion and eagle are their representative animals?!? Please. The lion is Babylon. That was their national symbol as well, but even more specific, it is Nebuchadnezzar. The removal of the wings, with his walking upright, was a reference to his healing of insanity. You say the bear is russia, based on nothing. You argue the leapord is Germany because the word "reich" sounds like "rise." You are aware that Daniel was written in Hebrew and Aramaic and not English, right?!? And you seem to believe the last kingdom refers to the European Union. Why couldn't it have been the League of Nations? Why not some future confederation of nations? What about an Arab Alliance?!?

Besides all of this, it is silly in that it is contradictory. These "beasts" arise one after another. England is still around. America is still around. Russia isn't, and Germany isn't the terror it once was. There has been no progression. In fact, your chronology has Russia and Germany backwards, because the USSR was extremely dangerous after Germany.

Against this, you have the simple idea that Daniel is writing to Jewish people about their future. The issue is God's plan for their redemption, so whatever goes on is with reference to Israel. There is absolutely no basis to apply Daniel's visions to any modern day countries.

And yet again, you have to rip Daniel 7 out of the context of the rest of the book to make it work. You would have to argue that these four beasts have no relationship to Neb's statue or the Ram/Goat scheme. You also have to totally ignore the very, very specific list of prophecies throughout Daniel 11, all of which have been fulfilled (some typologically) except the last couple of verses.

So, the reason I reject your position, as will most people, is that it is simply absurd. There is nothing to lend credibility to it. You have no basis to argue from, other than, "England's symbol was a Lion, and America's is an Eagle, and 'reich' sounds like 'rise.'" Sorry, but I think sound exegesis lends the standard understand much, much more valuable.

The second problem is your presentation. Even if we were to consider your position valid, you automatically set the deck against yourself by coming out guns a' blazin'. Here's a future tip for you. People generally respond the way you approach them. You post an article ridiculing a very solidily defended and traditionally held position, and you do it with little to no evidence, you won't be well received. Again, I don't know how you are with other Christians, but if this is the way you normally approach issues, this is the way you will consistently be accepted.

Again, I'm asking you as a fellow futurist . . . reconsider your position. While I appreciate what you are trying to do, the impact you have will be more negative than positive.

God bless
Proinsias wrote:I don't think you are hearing me. Preference for ice cream is a moral issue
And that, brothers and sisters, is the kind of foolishness you get people who insist on denying biblical theism. A good illustration of any as the length people will go to avoid acknowledging basic truths.
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Post by Iggy »

Jac3510 wrote:I don't know the history of your discussions with Christiand, Iggy, but if they are anything like what you've just presented here, then then the reason you get dismissed out of hand is both the nature of your interpretation and the nature of your presentation of it.
huh? why u bringin me in this...?
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Post by Jac3510 »

Holy cow... sorry man. I misread your SN... thought you were purelyironic. Consider that all to him! :oops:
Proinsias wrote:I don't think you are hearing me. Preference for ice cream is a moral issue
And that, brothers and sisters, is the kind of foolishness you get people who insist on denying biblical theism. A good illustration of any as the length people will go to avoid acknowledging basic truths.
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Post by Iggy »

it's cool...
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